1120 replies to this topic

[Myrdin]

AI tends to spam them pretty often, when theyre price is halfed ( brutal ) . . . . . umm well wait, i reconsider that statement : AI tends to spawn fast everything when they price is halfed ( and watching 4 rams and 3 catas supported by huge army advencing to ya base, slowly, but deadly - well this thing can pump in you some adrenalin at 07:00 AM good "wakeup" at times you need to get up soon)

[Hexman]

The Dwarves can have one more hero who could be Beor,the man who tranformes in a bear

[{IP} Aridor]

I think he should be at the Inns some how.

[mike_]

Grimbeorn, maybe.

[Rafv Nin IV]

Beorn has nothing to do with the Dwarves, save that thirteen of them spent a few nights at his house.

Does anyone think it odd that the only cavalry that cannot capture buildings is the Battlewagon? Is there a reason for this, or is it something EA decided would be funny that hasn't been fixed?

[{IP} Aridor]

He seems like a really good hero to have and really important but he has no faction. Same with Tom Bombidil

[Dalf32]

battlewagon acts as cavalry, but imo its kinda part siege; sorta. thats why it never bothered me.

[Scryer]

battlewagon acts as cavalry, but imo its kinda part siege; sorta. thats why it never bothered me.

Strangely, I get the exact same impression from them.

And by the way, that's ^^ all I'm going to add into this discussion because AA IP'er already stole my point .

[Myrdin]

theres no point in discussing it - since they are half siege they cant capture, dot, finish, end
(same thing could be other way inplied to mountain giant, he is siege, and beast partly, and doing such things would be unneeded)

[Hexman]

Beorn has nothing to do with the Dwarves, save that thirteen of them spent a few nights at his house.

Does anyone think it odd that the only cavalry that cannot capture buildings is the Battlewagon? Is there a reason for this, or is it something EA decided would be funny that hasn't been fixed?

You´re right . But Beor helped the dwarves in the battle of five armies . But Shlelob as nothing with the goblins and she is a heroe fo then

[Scryer]

But Shlelob as nothing with the goblins and she is a heroe fo then

Not sure what Rob thinks of the Goblins as a faction; But I always viewed the Goblins' faction as being a faction that contains the 'wild enemies' of the good people of middle-earth. I also viewed this faction as being a faction that contains the creatures that Sauron (or Morgoth) had an influence over. I know I'm not explaining this right.

My point is that I think that Shelob fits in with the Goblins perfectly. She may feed upon an orc or a goblin once in a while, but she'd rather eat a human any day.

Now onto Beorn: I could honestly care less about him. He only fought in one battle (as far as I know..) in The Hobbit. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this mod has a strong focus on the War of the Ring era. If this mod had a much stronger focus on The Hobbit timeframe, then we would be arguing about Beorn's powers and I would obviously think differently on this topic. If he manages to get into the mod without much gameplay/cookie-cutting trouble, then I'd be all for him. But I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't get in at all.

On the otherhand, I think that he would make a good power (in the power tree) for the Dwarves. I'd elaborate on this but I'm too tired and I definitely don't know what's on the power tree (from the current beta) off the top of my head.

Edited by Scryer, 07 August 2008 - 08:02 AM.

[Hexman]

But Shlelob as nothing with the goblins and she is a heroe fo then

Not sure what Rob thinks of the Goblins as a faction; But I always viewed the Goblins' faction as being a faction that contains the 'wild enemies' of the good people of middle-earth. I also viewed this faction as being a faction that contains the creatures that Sauron (or Morgoth) had an influence over. I know I'm not explaining this right.

My point is that I think that Shelob fits in with the Goblins perfectly. She may feed upon an orc or a goblin once in a while, but she'd rather eat a human any day.

Ok

[Dalf32]

yea, scryer i think youre right. ea originally intended them to be called 'the wild' but they changed the name to the goblins (i would guess because it sounds better), so imo it is more of a conglomerate faction than a proper faction. if that makes any sense.

[Myrdin]

On the otherhand, I think that he would make a good power (in the power tree) for the Dwarves. I'd elaborate on this but I'm too tired and I definitely don't know what's on the power tree (from the current beta) off the top of my head.

i could imagine it as 15 pp power, Beorn appearing with 4 huge bears ( there is a model of bears in the game, looks pretty good, but its a neutral invulnearable animal that just roams around ( like a part of the scenery ), of course the bears could fight.

the bears could have like 800 hp, heavy armor and zerkers like aoe, but slow movement rate to compense the thing. And bearn could be give like 3 power, ( as quick example - Herbs of Nature -heals friendly units that are near to him, Roar of the Beast - in medium area around Beorn units recieve 30% dmg bonus, and last Bear Form / or more poetical name / Beast inside - would change him into bear, with xx hp, heavy hero armor, zerker like aoe dmg, and decreased movement speed ),
But since he wont be ingame, i wont bother with coming up with other powers and stats for him

[{IP} Aridor]

I like it better than Tom or hobbits. Makes sense. B/c in the book Beorn just showed up suddenly at the battle and went into a beserker rage.

[Rafv Nin IV]

I'd like to bring up the subject of the upgrades for the Battlewagons. Currently you can purchase axethrowers to put in the rear, MoD archers to put in the rear, a moving Hearth, or a banner (which provides small leadership, slow self-healing and a few pikemen in the rear).

I always have upgraded with the banner. Out of curiosity, I played a game where I used the other upgrades, and none of them are worth it.

The extra fighters in the back do little damage. It costs 400 resources to put MoD in the back. It costs 300 resources to buy some Guardians, and the soldiers will do far more damage than the archers in the back of the battlewagon. The same is true with the axethrowers, except that they are weaker and cheaper.

The hearth might be useful, but it costs about the same as buying another battlewagon. Battlewagons are easy to kill unless they are microed very well because they don't have much health. If you keep it out of battle, then the soldiers don't get healed when they most need it.

I get the banner for the self-heal, mostly. The pikemen don't do much, and by the time I've got a level 2 Seige Works I usually can get a decent hero with some leadership.

What I suggest is getting rid of these upgrades, and replacing them with the following ones:

1) Instead of buying archers/axethrowers to put in the back, an upgrade could be bought which allows you to garrison a battalion in the battlewagon. This either allows you to add power to the battlewagon, or allows you to move slow dwarven units around in a transport vehicle.

2) The hearth's price could be lowered by 100 resources to make it more practical.

3) Since you could garrison phalanx in the battlewagon, this feature of the banner could be disabled. In return, the self-heal and/or leadership could be boosted and the upgrade kept the same price.

4) The battlewagon could be allowed to capture flags. This has been brought up before, and is unrelated to the topic of battlewagon upgrades.

[Dalf32]

i actually really like the idea of garrisoning units in the rear of the battlewagon. that sounds awesome and could throw in some interesting strategies, not to mention alternate uses for the battlewagon. i would suggest however that the ability to garrison be an upgrade in itself (very cheap) so that you are forced to commit your battlewagon to that purpose rather than just making all of your new battlewagons transports and upgrading them later.

ill also say that (at least for me) a hearth upgraded battlewagon is not really meant to be sent into battle proper but more to run around the span of your force and heal them when in transit or when they are fighting. lots of microing to use them in this way though.

[dojob]

Yeah, wagon transports sound good as an upgrade

[Dalf32]

perhaps we could split that into two different upgrades for even more decision-making goodness; one upgrade allows you to transport the units, but they cant do anything to defend the wagon, and the other allows you to garrison the wagon with units that will help defend it only they cant un-garrison. that way its not just an upgraded version of the transport.

[mike_]

Versatility...nice.