1120 replies to this topic

[Devon]

That was my idea, and it was to add a new forge works upgrade that lets all infantry receive throwing axes (when upgraded). That's guardians, hammer guardians, bows, and phalanx

[dojob]

Meh, it's all a matter of opinion and preference. I think it would be a lot easier if Rob just buffed ATs, but if they absolutely must go, then I'd go with Yoda's idea and give the ability to Dwarf infantry.

[Eärendur]

How about if the Dwarven Battle Wagon has either the Axe Throwers or Men of Dale upgrade replaced with a 'Unit Transport' upgrade, which allows one horde/hero at a time to garrison in the Battle Wagon. That way the slow dwarven units can cover large distances in the Wagon and then be dropped off in the thick of the fighting. That way you don't need to endanger your Builder, or wait until you have the Undermine power.

[Excuse_me_princess]

Shouldn't the battle wagon have more health, or is it just me.
As far as my experience goes (I have played the game since it's release in 2006 and spend the most time playing with the dwarfs) the battle wagon doesn't last long enough in a fight to actually make a difference, if I use them they are the first units that are destroyed.

Wouldn't it be a good idea to change the purpose of the battle wagon, as I can see it the battle wagon would be better suitable as a mobile (heavy) weapon (perhaps artillery) platform.
Make it a bit bigger and slower and the ability to mount a small catapult or (garrison able) axe tower (bunker).
I know it's some kind of weapon platform already, but it's just too weak in comparison to it's command points, as of now you could better use those to spawn some guardians or a real unit of axe throwers or men of dale.

Edited by Excuse_me_princess, 20 May 2009 - 01:14 PM.

[Eärendur]

That's actually a very good idea, make the Battle Wagon larger, decrease its speed a little, increase its HP and armor, and allow it to purchase the 'Bunker' (could also be called 'Unit Transport') upgrade (allows 1 unit/horde to garrison in the Wagon), the 'Turret' upgrade (places a catapult/turret which auto-targets nearby enemies even while the Battle Wagon is moving), and either the 'Men of Dale' or 'Axe Throwers' upgrade (same as current MoD or AT upgrades, except that it places, say, 5 units instead of 2)

[dojob]

Or you could buff their armor a bit so they don't get owned by archers :S

[Excuse_me_princess]

And waddaya think of this:

Make it mountable by heroes!
What if King Dain himself would stand on the battle wagon, leading the battle.
The battle wagon would be outfitted with more armor, a big leadership and heal buff, and some elite axethrowers (or men of dale depending on who's installed)
The hero can unmount whenever you like, and if the battle wagon is destroyed the hero will appear out of the wrekage (minus some health of course)
Only one of these (epic) mount combo's can be available at once.

In addition to all the buffs for one character, let's devide them shall we:

King Dain:
Leadership combo who will buff units.
- Enhanced armor;
- Kick ass leadership/heal buff;
- Imunity to fear buff for dwarven units (like stubborn pride).

Gimli:
Anti infantry combo, who will trample anything that's in his way.
- Enhanced armor;
- Enhanced speed;
- Wider range/more damage when running over enemy units.

Gloin:
Anti building combo.
- Enhanced armor;
- Outfitted ramming abillity (buildings);
- Outfitted with ground hammer (earthquake) abillity.

King brand:
Leadership combo who will buff units (as there are not so many dale units he will also be outfitted with arrow barrage ability).
- Enhanced speed;
- Outfitted with arrow barage abillity (select, point click on the map);
- Leadership buff for Dale units.

Prince brad:
Anti monsters/cavalary combo.
- Enhanced speed;
- Enhanced vision range;
- outfitted with elite archers of dale.

Thorin:
Anti archer/mage combo.
- Enhanced armor;
- Enhanced fire (or all magic) resistance;
- Outifitted with elite axe throwers.

Borin:
Barage hero (good against most, but not great angainst all).
- Enhanced armor;
- Enhanced vision range;
- Outfitted with catapult.

All cart (hero or normal) can gain experience and thus raise thier level, improving health and armor.
They will auto heal (thus making them more usefull, I mean what's the point of leveling a unit which can not be healed by any means!?)

Edited by Excuse_me_princess, 24 May 2009 - 07:49 PM.

[mike_]

Original, but I'd like to see the battlewagon get axed instead. Pun dully intended

[{IRS}Athos]

Duly, mike. Duly.

[Uruk King]

I think it's "dully" because by pun standards it's not that witty, (no offence to Mike intended), and it has ben used more than once.

[Rafv Nin IV]

I would prefer, if the battlewagon is kept (which it should be, because they're so awesome ) that my previous suggestion be followed:

I'd like to bring up the subject of the upgrades for the Battlewagons. Currently you can purchase axethrowers to put in the rear, MoD archers to put in the rear, a moving Hearth, or a banner (which provides small leadership, slow self-healing and a few pikemen in the rear).

I always have upgraded with the banner. Out of curiosity, I played a game where I used the other upgrades, and none of them are worth it.

The extra fighters in the back do little damage. It costs 400 resources to put MoD in the back. It costs 300 resources to buy some Guardians, and the soldiers will do far more damage than the archers in the back of the battlewagon. The same is true with the axethrowers, except that they are weaker and cheaper.

The hearth might be useful, but it costs about the same as buying another battlewagon. Battlewagons are easy to kill unless they are microed very well because they don't have much health. If you keep it out of battle, then the soldiers don't get healed when they most need it.

I get the banner for the self-heal, mostly. The pikemen don't do much, and by the time I've got a level 2 Seige Works I usually can get a decent hero with some leadership.

What I suggest is getting rid of these upgrades, and replacing them with the following ones:

1) Instead of buying archers/axethrowers to put in the back, an upgrade could be bought which allows you to garrison a battalion in the battlewagon. This either allows you to add power to the battlewagon, or allows you to move slow dwarven units around in a transport vehicle.

2) The hearth's price could be lowered by 100 resources to make it more practical.

3) Since you could garrison phalanx in the battlewagon, this feature of the banner could be disabled. In return, the self-heal and/or leadership could be boosted and the upgrade kept the same price.

4) The battlewagon could be allowed to capture flags. This has been brought up before, and is unrelated to the topic of battlewagon upgrades.

5) The battlewagon should be able to heal from hearths. Currently, you have to buy banners or hearth on them before they heal.

[dojob]

I like it

[Eärendur]

Here's my suggestion:

A. Make the Battle Wagon about 2X larger and unable to use the Mine Network (unless all the Dwarven siege units will be able to use it, which I think they should), increase its armor, health, and build-time. While making it a little slower, and have it pulled by 3-5 Great-Beasts instead of one.

B. Replace its upgrades with the following:
1. 'Troop Transport'. Places a Bunker-like structure on the Wagon. Allows 1 unit/horde to garrison and un-garrison in the Battle Wagon.
2. 'Catapult' (optional name). Places a catapult on the Wagon which auto-targets nearby enemies while the Wagon is standing still or moving. Once picked, Battle Wagon receives the 'Toggle Targeting' (optional name) ability, which allows switching between the catapult auto-targeting nearby enemies or attacking whatever the Wagon is currently attacking. If the 'Catapult' upgrade is chosen, the Wagon can be upgraded with the 'Flaming Munitions' upgrade once it is bought at the Siege Works.
3. 'Axe Throwers' or 'Men of Dale'. Same as current upgrades, except places 5 AT's or MoD instead of two.
4. 'Banners'. Places Banners on the Wagon. Grants a Leadership bonus to nearby allied units. Places two Dwarven Spearmen (equipped with extra-long spears to compensate the increased hight of the Wagon) on the Wagon for melee support.

And C. At level 3, the Battle wagons receives the 'Veteran Vehicle' (optional name) passive ability, which allows the Battle Wagon to auto-heal when not under attack.

Edited by Eärendur, 26 May 2009 - 12:01 PM.

[Uruk King]

Do we really need to improve on someting as appalling as Battle-wagons, we should be improving and expanding the Dwarven infantry divisions.

[Excuse_me_princess]

I think it's important that all the factions are individualized, they should be different from one another.
And although I think that the dwarfs could do with some extra units and buildings, I think the main priority should be things like siege engines and special units.
Because these are the things that separate the dwarfs form other races.

[mike_]

Actually it was the Dwarves as a race and culture that set them apart from the other Children of Eru.. they were hardy, long-lived (but mortal), and strong beyond their size. They were the greatest warriors to pit against the Orcs, so said Galadriel. Not wagon-riders

[Rafv Nin IV]

...but Battlewagons are so fun...It's like a little taste of Super Awesome Battle For Middle-Earth 2!

[Excuse_me_princess]

Actually it was the Dwarves as a race and culture that set them apart from the other Children of Eru.. they were hardy, long-lived (but mortal), and strong beyond their size. They were the greatest warriors to pit against the Orcs, so said Galadriel. Not wagon-riders

Okay, if that's the case, we could better start on revamping the whole dwarven race.
First off all, their stone work upgrades turns buildings ORANGE!?
For Tolkiens and Herberts sake!
I know that as a down right Dutchman I should aprove of the colour orange, but come on!
I'd rather see darker colours and some runic decorations or statues instead of some hippie colours.
And there I was thinking elves were tree-huggers!
I mean dude... come on.
Dwarfs are great builders, but their buildings don't look like great masonry to me (better then the elves before you're wonderful decrapyfycation... the elves look great now)
You would expect that the fortress would look a bit more impressive.

[mike_]

It's being worked on.

[Florisz]

Dun dun dun duuuun...