1712 replies to this topic

[Captain of Arnor]

I mentioned that you'd have to limit them, aye. And that their real power would be only in a fully combined horde.

But here's what I think.

The Numenoreans, as far as Men go, were the most powerful. They were the strongest, the bravest, the true Captains of Men as far as a full race goes. They should be this in the mod, as well.

Their MHH should be powerful. Not powerful on their own, but when you combine the MHH hordes, they rule the battlefield.

Hordes could go like this, actually. All MHH hordes would be able to combine with themselves, of course. Like, you could make one horde of steelbow men combined rather than a horde of cross-matched units.

Numenorean Pikemen - 1500 cost. Limited to 3 total, combinable with the other MHH hordes. 5-8 in each squad.

Numenorean Steelbowmen - 1500 cost. Limited to !!2!! total (since they're more powerful than the others), combinable with the other MHH battalion. 5-8 in each squad.

Numenorean Swordsmen / Numenorean Warriors - 1500 cost. Limited to 3 total, combinable with the other MHH hordes. 5-8 in each squad.

You guys like?

[Dalf32]

i dont like the idea of being able to get 8 battallions worth of mhhs. its too much; op imo.

[Sportfan704]

i agree with wat dalf said but i can see captain of arnor's idea work if each mhh is less powerful and costs less (1500 is too much for a weaker mhh)

Edited by Sportfan704, 04 April 2009 - 06:49 PM.

[Eärendur]

Maybe they can all be restricted to 5 units per horde, and 2 Steelbowmen hordes max (who's name in my opinion should be more like "Annuminas Steelbows"), 1 pikemen horde max (who's name in my opinion should be more like "Spearmen of Armenelos"), and 1 or 2 swordsmen hordes max (who's name in my opinion should be more like "Numenor Bladebearers"). And IMO they should all have the same skins (like the one I've been re-displaying. Sorry 'bout that, I just really like that pic. just different weapons/shields.

[Dalf32]

now that i think about it, i dont think that system could be implemented without allowing 8 mhhs. the reason being that i dont think there is a way to limit multiple units to a single, consolidated number. this is why the elves have 9 mhh available to them atm; there is no way (that we know of) to do it.

[Eärendur]

Why? the current Arnor MHH *shudder* is restricted to 1 horde max. Why not have three MMH's? one restricted to 1 horde max, and two others restricted to 2 hordes max?

[Neth]

I think that there should be 3 M.H.Hs for Arnor but each should be limited to 1 battalion
Numenorean Swordsman - 5 per battalion, limited to 1
Numenorean Steel-Bowmen - 4 per battalion, limited to 1
Numenorean Pikemen - 5 per battalion, limited to 1

[Captain of Arnor]

XD I knew that the number thing was coming. Read up. Thats why I said under-power them when they're on their own but make them stronger when they group. You shouldn't be able to swarm the field with eight seperate units of super-powered MHH hordes - unless you're the Elves, that is, because everyone knows they're not OP at all now in numbers - but if you want a custom experience there it is.

It would be best to keep it (the elite hordes) to an even number, so that way you don't have one unit running out all on their own, getting slaughtered and adding to wasted resources.

Also really sorry about the triple post, my mouse is broken. Its been happening a lot, been screwing me up lately on some games I play. Toss in a lagging, randomly disconnecting computer and you've got a tripple post!

Edited by Captain of Arnor, 04 April 2009 - 11:33 PM.

[Eärendur]

What kind of mouse is it?

[Captain of Arnor]

Its just a normal Microsoft optical mouse. Nothing special. The left button is kinda messed up because its a few years old.

[Eärendur]

If you're interested in a new mouse, let me recommend a Logitech (non-wireless) laser mouse. I've had one for over four years and it hasn't let me down yet.

[Captain of Arnor]

Unfortunately, some people think that adding Dunedain Pikemen (which should be named Arnor Pikemen instead of Dunedain, just like Dunedain Archers and Dunedain Soldiers should be Arnor Archers and Arnor Soldiers) and a unit of Dunedain-type light non-MHH cavalry would make Arnor into a Gondor clone. So those are not options. =\

I think the faction is already somewhat of a Gondor clone - Gondor and Arnor were the same after all. The only differences were the Kings and the locations.

[Uruk King]

Perhaps in this whole thing about MMHs, that could be Arnor's speciality. Not large armies of disciplined soildiers, like Gondor, but groups of Arnor's finest soldiers, disciplined and well trained like Gondor, but set to the battlefield with their skill, prowess and valour to last them in battle rather then a single force of unified strength, because division of forces left Arnor vulnerable to the Witch-king.

The Dunedain had longer lifespans, and more time to dedicate themselves to their craft until they became the kind of Warriror seen only in Aragorn and the grey company, and perhaps in Gondor's soldiers where there was more Numenor blood than most men. In early game Arnor's army consists of city guardsmen and sentilels, defensive spearmen, and short range archers, capable of receiving upgrades, but lack the prowess and skill seen in Arnor's elites. The rangers still provide archery and stealth

Mid to late game, the Arnor elites are introduced, rather then actuall MMHs, they are just stronger units, and can be felled dpeneding on the opposing faction's strategy, i.e, Mordor's vast swathes of orcs could overwhelm them. There are three divisions each with three batallions per division, and five units per batallion.

Arnor Champions - elite swordsmen bearing greatswords, rather like Aragorn
King's Guard - Elite Spearmen, bearing Tower shields
Steel-bowmen of Numenor - well, we all know what they would be like

So basically, it's normal infantry, if somewhat limited in variety in early game, then Arnor elites to spearhead Arnor's strength.

[Captain of Arnor]

^^ I think you've just won my heart. ^^

[shadowcreature]

I like Uruk King's suggestions for Arnor's mhh replacements. However, for the uniqueness for gameplay, perhaps it be just the King's Guard and Numenor Steelbowmen considering both Dwarves and Isengard have infantry mhh's. Also, as much as enticing to have them armed with big shields, I think that would make it too Gondorian imo. For the King's Guard model, how about the vanilla BFME 2 Tower Guards?

[Captain of Arnor]

The Men of Numenor were the most hardy of all of the races of Men with the sword. It would be a disgrace to Arnor in Tolkiens works, and would steal from the honesty of this mod, if Arnor didn't get at least some type of powerful sword wielding unit (not a hero either.)

I think Arnor should have a sword-wielding MHH as well as the others. So what if three factions of ten have a sword using MHH? People won't think about how akin they are to the Dwarves and Isengard when they're taking the field with three different types of mini hero hordes.

[dojob]

Yeah I could understand shitty militia/watchman units at first and then better elites (soldiers, archers, and mhhs would be pikes or their current knights) coming later in the game, and to keep from having too many Arnor units from one building, why not replace the basic soldiers and archers with a militia-ish unit that can switch weapons?

That would actually be pretty good tbh because then u could have more human units while still keeping Arnor unique from Gondor, and u'd get that elite Numenor feel too

[shadowcreature]

Interesting on the militia men, what about making them the Arnor Barracks level 1 unit and making the soldiers and archers level 2, then making whichever Mhh's get in level 3?

[Eärendur]

I like the idea that Arnor will comprise of weakish early game units (maybe debuff the Arnor Soldiers and Archers), and elite units for mid- to late-game. While still keeping the Elves and Dunedain Alliances (but bought at a separate building called a Alliance Beacon that could look like this:
)

--------------------------------------
On another topic, I think that Arnor's Power Tree needs a major re-do, Here's how I think it should go:

5 pp. :
Heal, Power of the Palantir, and either Rebuild or Elven Wood.

10 pp. :
Either Rebuild or Elven Wood depending on tier 1, Enshrouding Mist, Summon Watchtower, and Arrow Volley.

15 pp. :
Cloudbreak, Summon Istari or Earthquake (reduced time or area and damage), and Bombardment.

25 pp. :
Sunflare, and Summon Istari or Earthquake (reduced time or area and damage) depending on tier 3.

Arrangement of powers is optional.

Edited by Eärendur, 05 April 2009 - 07:19 PM.