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#141 Dalf32

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 04:18 PM

yea, the evil men thing sounds great. as of now, its kinda hard 2 separate the factions whil ur playin, if u no wat i mean.

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#142 Spointz2020

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 10:26 AM

i liked the first idea better.... :) so i no like u ne more !!!! :p
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#143 Guest_Guest_Phoenix_*_*

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 04:50 AM

I haven't played this mod, so I might not know what I'm talking about when I say this, but I think that this "Union" power kind of runs a risk of being useless (assuming that it is a 15 point power and assuming that there isn't an armoury that unlocks upgrades for both sides.....I mean c'mon, why bother using a union power to get new units when you could just focus your upgrades on the units that you already have?). Other than that, I think that it's a brilliant idea! I have a couple of suggestions:

-I know that I'm kind of late in saying this but maybe you could implement new creature-units, like a desert-cougar or something. I believe that desert-cougars could be found in the harad regions and they could work like war riders.

-I love the Mumakil Captain hero already. So long as he has a good Mumakil leadership and Mumakil Mounting abilities, I'm fine.

-You really need to boost up some Mumakil defence against pikemen (and possibly archers) and speed. It's unrealistic as to how vulnerable they are! Not only that but they take way too long to get around the map. I almost use Charge just so that they can move faster. I want my enemy to actually fear Mumakil for their devastating abilities on the battlefield!

-For Harad siege.....To get units on a wall, I had an idea that the mumakil could gain a new ability that lets them go right up against a unit-placeable wall and the units mounted on the Mumakil can jump off onto the wall. Meanwhile the Mumakil retracts and charges away to gather more units. Of course this would be hell to program but I believe that it could be possible. Another possibility for long-range siege could be the Corsair's Harpoon. Or else you could have the young-Mumakil cast nets of catapult rocks upon buildings and stuff.

-For Rhun, since the Sea of Rhun was densley populated with forests, maybe you could give them some siege weapons that rely heavily on wood? I mean, really, if you have a great body of water with a good forest nearby then the people of Rhun would have definitely populated it. It's agriculture would have been too rich to pass up.....Anyways, if you wanted to give Rhun a certain theme to it, you could say that the forest around the Sea of Rhun was a lot like asian (or South American) forests and therefore, you could get away with having a siege weapon that launched several long, carved, bamboo logs (with a metal buckle at the end - upgrade, maybe?). This weapon could work like an "Arrow Folley" power, except it heavily damages structures. Lastly, to get on the walls you could just have bamboo ladders (if you continue with the idea that the forest was Asian/South American-like).

-For a 25-point power, you could have a sandstorm that just devestates units and weaker structures. It could start off like the Angmar wind power (forgot the name, sorry) and it could end up being a massive sand-twister that lasts for a good 25 seconds.

And lastly, I have a question; What exactly is going on with the Corsairs? I, personally, would like to see Corsair Crossbowmen as well as the regular soldiers with heavy armour upgrades and a possible speed increase.

#144 Allathar

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 11:35 AM

-I know that I'm kind of late in saying this but maybe you could implement new creature-units, like a desert-cougar or something. I believe that desert-cougars could be found in the harad regions and they could work like war riders.


Perhaps, but I don't really see the point in adding them. What would, apart from their looks, make them different from the wargs? Of course it could be added just for the fun, so perhaps in the future.

-I love the Mumakil Captain hero already. So long as he has a good Mumakil leadership and Mumakil Mounting abilities, I'm fine.


That's the plan :p

-You really need to boost up some Mumakil defence against pikemen (and possibly archers) and speed. It's unrealistic as to how vulnerable they are! Not only that but they take way too long to get around the map. I almost use Charge just so that they can move faster. I want my enemy to actually fear Mumakil for their devastating abilities on the battlefield!


There are currently two mumak units: the oliphant and the mumakil. The oliphant is smaller and weaker, and the mumakil has been buffed and is much larger now. ;)

-For Harad siege.....To get units on a wall, I had an idea that the mumakil could gain a new ability that lets them go right up against a unit-placeable wall and the units mounted on the Mumakil can jump off onto the wall. Meanwhile the Mumakil retracts and charges away to gather more units. Of course this would be hell to program but I believe that it could be possible. Another possibility for long-range siege could be the Corsair's Harpoon. Or else you could have the young-Mumakil cast nets of catapult rocks upon buildings and stuff.


Good idea, although I don't know if that's codeable. Haradrim already have Corsair Ballistas as siege.

-For Rhun, since the Sea of Rhun was densley populated with forests, maybe you could give them some siege weapons that rely heavily on wood? I mean, really, if you have a great body of water with a good forest nearby then the people of Rhun would have definitely populated it. It's agriculture would have been too rich to pass up.....Anyways, if you wanted to give Rhun a certain theme to it, you could say that the forest around the Sea of Rhun was a lot like asian (or South American) forests and therefore, you could get away with having a siege weapon that launched several long, carved, bamboo logs (with a metal buckle at the end - upgrade, maybe?). This weapon could work like an "Arrow Folley" power, except it heavily damages structures. Lastly, to get on the walls you could just have bamboo ladders (if you continue with the idea that the forest was Asian/South American-like).


Rhûn needs some long and short-range siege weapons, but it's not yet decided what this will be.

-For a 25-point power, you could have a sandstorm that just devestates units and weaker structures. It could start off like the Angmar wind power (forgot the name, sorry) and it could end up being a massive sand-twister that lasts for a good 25 seconds.


This is in the WIP :)

And lastly, I have a question; What exactly is going on with the Corsairs? I, personally, would like to see Corsair Crossbowmen as well as the regular soldiers with heavy armour upgrades and a possible speed increase.


Corsairs are currently tier 2 units in the Haradrim tavern. There's one new corsair unit, the Corsair Ballista, and perhaps there will be an Umbar hero.
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#145 Guest_Guest_Phoenix_*_*

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Posted 26 December 2007 - 06:31 PM

I see your point in how adding desert-cougars as another unit would be useless. But maybe you could consider using them as wild units? This would work nicely especially if the Evil Men had an "Untamed Allegiance" power or something. Along with the wild desert-cougars you could also add in wild Oliphants. This could also make a new (level two or so..) power for a Haradrim/Khandian/Rhun hero. Besides every map has some sort of wild unit on it so it could get some use out of it.

For Rhun long-range siege machinery, you could play with fireworks (like a catapult launching fireworks) but the only problem with this is that you're probably straying away from the world that Tolkien created because he sure as hell didn't mention anything about Rhun using fireworks. Or siege weapons for that matter (as far as I know). You couldalso give them the Corsair Ballista as well, since (or atleast I think) that the Corsairs would have definitely have lent their siege weapons to Rhun.

I remember reading that you guys were going to add sorcerers for the Evil Men faction, right (correct me if I'm wrong)? Well if you are, maybe you could consider giving some of the sorcerers, spells that do some mighty good sieging?

Another thing that you could consider with Rhun, is giving them more elite and advanced units and making Harad the siege faction with massive units. I highly doubt that you guys would consider this because I believe that you want the player to choose between Rhun and Harad (to begin the game with) based on who the player was facing and what faction the player prefers based on their equal usage. Well anyways, if you made Harad the 'siege-faction' of the two and if you made Rhun the more 'advanced unit' faction, then it would definitely pressure the player to get that 'Union Power' and it would give them more reason to use both factions. This idea, is just something to toss around. But the way I see it, one faction should have something that the other faction doesn't.

What other powers are you considering for the Evil Men faction, besides the 'Union Power' and the "Twister Power'?

Anyways, these are just some ideas to toss around.

#146 Devon

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 09:15 PM

for sorceres, elven noledhil are already filling that role. as for the union, it already is kind of like that. Rhun has stronger infantry that's slower and more powerful. Harad is more of a spam faction with weaker cheap troops backed up by mumaks.

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#147 Zlorfik

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 04:41 AM

please split MotE faction into seperate Harad and Rhun

Edited by Zlorfik, 15 January 2008 - 04:41 AM.


#148 Devon

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 08:16 PM

the problem is there are already 10 factions, and harad and rhun work really well in the current split faction. work would probably be done on splitting elves before this.

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#149 Dalf32

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 09:16 PM

i was under the impression that the faction limit was 10 for rotwk... so there would be no way to split any of the factions. correct me if i'm wrong.

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#150 Devon

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 10:21 PM

8 is the technical limit i think. cah and such can only be used with 8. i believe 10 might be the limit for capture flags, but i think theres no limit to how many total. correct me if im wrong too :)

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#151 Dalf32

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 11:21 PM

you're definitely right about the CaH limit, but i dunno about the other part... we need rob or someone else to help on this one.

Edited by Dalf32, 15 January 2008 - 11:25 PM.

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#152 HOLY_RAVEN

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 02:04 PM

my idea for power tree of mote.i don't say this is good but this is my idea :p
(heal-5) (war chant-5) (blight-5)

(arrow volley-10) (scavenger-12) (desert land-10) (summon corsairs-10)

(summon4group haradrim rider-15) (darkness-17) (medium corpse rain-15)

(STAMPEDE of oliphant-25) (burning area-25)



1-desert land as tainted land .
2-i told medium corpse rain because mote have sorcerers an have dark power (i say this is may good power for mote) .:p .
3-STAMPEDE of oliphant looks like STAMPEDE of rohan but no horse only oliphant.
4-(burning area) a large area use that spell be com burning to kill every (ally or enemy) unit on that area for long time.
(raven)

#153 shadowcreature

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Posted 09 February 2008 - 09:53 PM

i've an idea ive been swirling around. like the goblin archers, what about the abilty to combine fire and poison haradrim archers?

#154 Canadyan

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 11:31 PM

Will Evil Men's AI be complete by the next release? If it won't be, would you consider returning the Mumakil to Mordor until it is? I only say this because Mumakil are pretty much the most frightening thing to see heading towards your men, aside from the Balrog.

#155 Guest_Myrdin_*

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 11:37 AM

For the powers, of MotE

i would remove War chant( 5pp ) ( and remove it from every one, soo only isengard is able to use it, it even has Uruk Icon !)

i would fill it with power called ( something like this ) Winds of the East
-doubles movement speed and enchants attack speed by 50% all player/allied units in selected area

change Untaimed Alliance

into Summon Scorpions power ( 10pp ) ( based on the Goblin summon spiderlings ), which would summon a pack of scorpions with creature armor and poison dmg

Arrow Walley power ( 10 pp ) - Fire arrow walley

its ok, just made the area of efect bigger ad change graphic of arrows into fire arrows, + add fire efect ( burning ground, etc )

Remove Barrage ( 15pp ) - Mumakil herd

summons 3 angry mumakils to stampade enemies ( the smaller ones, i think its Ollifants )

Balrog ( 25pp ) its ok

Fire rain ( 25pp ) change into something like - Black Heal

based on the angmar sorcerrers " Well of souls", in area of effect it would poison enemies, and full heal + respawn your/allied units. Unlike angmar one it would be more powerfull, killing enemies in like 5 seconds. It could dmg buildigs a little, maybe 1/4 of hp.

Now some other stuff

name for the captain hero - Nomak/Armak

of damn gtg, ill continue after i get home

#156 Devon

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 02:20 PM

MotE still has Mordor's spellbook, it'll be changed in the near future.

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#157 Scryer

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 06:27 PM

I realize that you guys have moved on from the discussion of splitting Harad and Rhun into seperate factions. I would just like to add that I highly disagree with this because MOTE works well with both of those as subfactions. Not only that but the subfactions complete each other, if you know what I mean. I can't really explain it, but if RJ was to split the subfactions up, I know that he would have to program more defensive units for Harad and more offensive units for Rhun - which would probably make these factions "cookie-cutters" of each other.

Regarding MOTE's powers.... The biggest argument that we seem to be having is the higher PP powers. Personally, I think that there should be a gargantuan sand-twister that lasts like 30 seconds (I believe someone else mentioned this idea before me?) and that MOTE should also get a Mumakil Stampede power. I also think that it would be a good idea to add in a level 10 "Corsair" themed power.... But that's just my opinion. Yoda did mention that the powers will be changed, so maybe we should wait until we find out more?

A quick question, which subfaction are the sorcerers going to again? Last time I checked, I think that they were for Rhun? Which I highly agree with because if Harad gets Mumakil, I think that it would only be fair if Rhun got the sorcerers. Not only that but it fits in with the whole Blue Wizards' lore. What spells do they get again (Ya, I haven't played the latest public release for a LONG time)?

I really don't suppose if it would be possible if you could make subfaction-specific heroes? If you could somehow program that, then that might help balance this faction out even more. As of now, I honestly think that MOTE will be over-powered if you guys aren't careful - which I believe that you are.

I don't suppose that I should start another thread about maps because I'm pretty sure that RJ has more concerns at the moment than maps... Well anyways, what I wanted to suggest was an "Islands" map or something like that because the naval combat is flippin' useless as of now. This does tie in with MOTE because they use Corsair ships (or atleast the Corsairs of Umbar are a minor part of MOTE's themes). As I was saying, naval combat is useless so I honestly think that an "Islands" map or something should be in there. As of now, when I play Umbar (or Grey Havens) I just let my units walk around because the ships cost too much and the unit-holding ships don't hold enough at once. Maybe I would consider saving up 3000 (which is a rediculous price) for a catapulting ship to "sneak attack" on my enemy's base but other than that shipyards are useless to me. Either you can create an "Islands" map or you could split up Umbar and Grey Havens (or other maps that have rivers in them - Osgiliath comes to mind if you could make the bridges destructible). The only problem that I foresee with mpas that use Naval Combat, is that it could bring on a stale-mate if both players were good at navally defending and attacking each other.

One last thing that I would like to ask, is MOTE getting a Corsair Captain hero? I heard some talk about a Corsair hero being purchased from the inn but it was never confirmed.... I would also like to make one last suggestion: Could the Corsair units get speed increase or defense boost (one or the other)? They were mean't to be Guerilla (Sp?) harrassers (is this what you're intending them to be?) and with their low speed/defense, I really just can't bring myself to use them as such. They either get killed right away, or they can't escape fast enough. The only reaosn that I suggested that you buff either their speed or defense, is so that they aren't too much "Cookie-Cutter-like" of the other MOTE warriors. Maybe they could also give a significant bonus to the ships that are carrying them? Like 10% more speed and armour or something? I could be thinking in the wrong direction with this idea though....

Edited by Scryer, 16 February 2008 - 07:00 PM.

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#158 Guest_Myrdin_*

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 12:55 PM

After some playing done again, i tried single race ( once with Harad and another game Rhun ), against brutal enemy

using just one faction units - you can get strategy, and defeat the enemy.

But. . . . using both factions ( with the discount thing for the main - i love it, and higher prices for other one ) you get more freedom on changing you strategy, and i can garanty you SUCH pwnage that you can make if you use corectly the units/heroes is really cool.

Soo pls DEFINETLY dont split em permanently !!! they are cool as they are

#159 Guest_Myrdin_*

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 11:19 AM

btw, change the loading game melody for them

( i think some arrabic themed music would be good )

maybe song called Am Ma Eya (Atlantis), would best describe what i got on mind ( if you want i can send it to you, just for listening )

#160 Scryer

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 07:16 AM

I agree with the music change, but it's such a minor detail that it doesn't matter at the moment. But I'd like to stick with the LOTR music.... But I think that the team should feel free to explore other musical genres besides the LOTR soundtrack.

Myrdin - if what you're saying is true and if all other advanced players can easily win against brutal enemies with MOTE... Then that's a sign that they're overpowered. RJ mentioned that Harad was more offensive and Rhun was a turtler. I don't know if this is possible, but maybe he should significantly nerf Haradrim units (not mumakil...) and also decrease their build time. While at the same time, he could buff Rhun units and make them longer to build/more expensive. Other than this idea that I pulled out of the air, I can't think of anything mediocre to solve this problem, if it is a problem....

Edited by Scryer, 29 February 2008 - 07:18 AM.

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