968 replies to this topic

[myster]

Myrdin having the chariots chop trough swordmen, archers(though archers are good at attacking too them, i think you also meant for them to be weak when they are attacked by the chariots) and cavalry like matchsticks AND instill fear to everyone would kinda be OP imo.. maybe making them weak against horses would balance it out a little more.

[Myrdin]

ops sorry i kinda created confusion here

myster - with the instill fear i didnt mean it as " instill fear " as ability, but as metafor, such turn of words, just to better interpret the situation when they aproach battlefield. hhh didnt realized that its ability too, sorry again

[Scryer]

For the whole chariot idea go to page 10 in this thread. I'm sure that we both thought of the idea, Myrdin, but this might be a case where I just "beat you to the punch".

I think that the chariots should share a common weakness as the Calvary -Pikemen. But they should definitely be effective against regular horsemen and other ground units. The unit upgrade to them would just emphasize a strength against a particular unit.

The Mumakil definitely need some buffing. I would like this unit to be a "tank" in the battlefield, I'll elaborate on this later... I think that if there's a Haradrim leader hero, that there should only be one -who would have a Mumakil Mount. I find that having two would just be cookie-cutting. If there is going to be a Mumakil Hero, then I would love for him to have the Horn of Harad with the proper sfx.

A Corsair hero would be interesting..... I have been saying for a while now that there has to some more Corsair involvement... I would hope that he'd get in the campaigns but I wouldn't be surprised if the team didn't put him in.

[Zyzzyva]

What about a chariot that has three possible upgrades at the level 2 rhun stables? One would add a cheiftain, which would provide leadership to allies, another with archers, and a final with spikes for anti cavalry. The regular would just be a heavyily trampling unit. This way you would have a sort of three in one unit That would allow a wain theme without having to little cavalry.

Edit: I think there was talk about adding the Black Serpent Chief, in which case the heros would be:
Harad: Corsair-Mumak-Ji Indur-Black Serpent Chief-Blue Wizard
Rhun: Corsair-Captain-(wain or assasin heros were discussed)-Khamul-Blue Wizard
Does anyone from the 'inner circle' (by which i mean yoda/shikari/robnkarla) know for sure whats planned?

Edited by Zyzzyva, 16 April 2008 - 12:23 AM.

[Scryer]

Hmm, are you suggesting that we cut out a swordsmen upgrade for the chariots? A while ago, Myrdin suggested a "Chariot Hero" to be Rhun's leader hero and I believe that I suggested him to replace the Rhun Captain (The Rhun hero in the latest public beta). I truly don't like having anything (other than banners) giving out leadership to other units, when it comes to the Chariot upgrades. So I am against any chieftain upgrades but I am for banners.

I think that the Corsair hero needs to give some kind of leadership bonus to siege weapons, Corsairs, and Black Ships.

Edited by Scryer, 16 April 2008 - 09:47 PM.

[Myrdin]

i suggested 5k hero while ago ( with mount chariot ability . . . either we think same way, or this is one big lol ) that would be neutral cost for each faction ( R, H ) was ment to be heavy combat leader.

[Scryer]

i suggested 5k hero while ago ( with mount chariot ability . . . either we think same way, or this is one big lol ) that would be neutral cost for each faction ( R, H ) was ment to be heavy combat leader.

Ya, actually sorry, it was you who came up with it first. I'll edit my prior post....

I think that the Chariot hero should have a price reduction for Rhun... And let the Corsair hero, the Blue wizards, and the other Nazguls (if I remember correctly) become the 'neutral' heroes. Afterall the Rhun Chariot hero (who would replace the Captain, if they take Myrdin's suggestion) would become Rhun's only hero.

Edited by Scryer, 17 April 2008 - 10:09 PM.

[Myrdin]

maybe the Easterling captain, could get promoted to Rhun General ( the hero i suggested ), and be as you say Rhun discounted - AFTER he would recieve an citadel upgrade ( soo you could upgrade your current 1500 early game hero into 5k powerfull late game hero.

soo you could use the easterling captain for as long as you want, for he would be cheap and have good support, and if needed you coul " promote " him into Rhun General with heavy combat/support skills ( few pages back, detail description )

[Scryer]

I don't like having anything that "Promotes" or "Upgrades" heroes except for Gondor's power and the Fell-Beasts. I would oppose this because this faction already has quite a few aspects for the player to focus on such as the minifactions, siege, upgrades, units, levelling heroes, etc.. I think that making any "Hero-upgradeable" (<not a word..) powers would just add too much to the game. Not only that but if Rob would go with this idea then I'm sure that it would only be fair if we gave these hero-upgrades to other heroes in the other factions.

I just don't see an upgrade for a hero working....

[Myrdin]

i didnt mean it as power, just a regular upgrade ( if your pointing on the last post, if its the even more older one, then nvm this)

[myster]

Like scryer said, i dont like any upgradable heroes either.

[Myrdin]

well, everyone has different tastes

[Uruk King]

Has anyone got an idea of what the Variags of Khand could look like?

[Scryer]

Something interesting that I found on the net:

http://fr.games-work...w/img/khand.jpg

Apparently toy comapnies are making the Variags of Khand take on a very japanese look. Now, this is not to offend the Japanese or their culture but I don't think that ripping off directly from the Samurais (<I did not spell that right...) is satisfactory for me. It's just too much of a "rip-off" for me to believe it... Sorry, but it's true. It doesn't even seem like the company even tried to make it look original; Like I said, they look like re-coloured Samurais to me - which doesn't fit in Tolkien's world for me. If they had used that influence in a more original way, I would respect it more but that's not the case....

I would like to see one of the mini-factions use an "Aztec-South American" cultural base to it. I would suggest this for Khand but I think that it would suit Rhun a lot better.

The reason that I think that these guys should be in black is because if they live exactly east of the Black Lands of Mordor (many maps say different things, or so I've noticed...) then I would expect that kind of land to jut out into Khand. Therefore, wearing black garments would help the Variags of Khand blend into the land and hunt better (once again, I'm assuming that they could hunt in their land).

[Uruk King]

I always pictures the Variags as heavy in build, little heavy armour apart from silid leather, looking more like the Huns or mabye Mongols, because both were welll established cavalry warriors, as were the variags but generally barbaric in appearance.

You also mentioned something Aztec based, well mabye a minifac for harad could be the Mahuds, a race of men large in stature and strength, proficient with ranged weapons, bringer of the Mumakil (the cost of Mumakil is reduced by half if you purchass this mini-fac), and tamer of beasts. The Mahud faction could be something of archer based with wild creatures for support.

[tylerman29]

tolkien obviously made rhun and harad eastern. in our world and carried that to be similer in middle earht hince the name men of the east.. being hun and mongol related peoples.

Edited by tylerman29, 22 April 2008 - 01:15 PM.

[Myrdin]

Well the poeple of Harad are looking like nomadic tribes living in deserts of southern parts of the world
the people of Rhun, theyr architecture and the way they are dressed looks a bit like mongolians of the past ( though without the metal parts on their cloths, for monoglians as rest of china and Japan, newer had armor conisted mostly of iron, more it was like cloth and leather )

soo i think Khand is kinda ( or maybe not " is " but more like " could be " ) between them.

soo basically the samurai figures, that someone posted link to them, look pretty much " out of the line " to me

[Scryer]

There doesn't need to be a "mini-faction" for Harad just so that we can explore some hardcore creative skinning. Sorry about being bold, but that's how I feel.

I found a map/site:

http://www.softwave....s/ennorath.html

http://www.softwave....us/ennorath.gif

It briefly mentions Khand, I think. I'm not sure whether I would take this map of middle-earth as a 'fact' because I have never come across a map like this until today. I don't think that we should go crazy with the 'lore' that is mentioned here because of what I said before... Anyways, it provides a little bit of insight as to where Khand is located in respect to Harad, Mordor, and Rhun.

Uruk King, I imagine the Variags basically the same as you. Only I picture them as having black armour with a purple symbol somewhere on their armour (by the way, I'm not talking about a flamboyant purple colour. I am referring to a dark, deep purple shade whenever I mention purple...). By the way, does anybody have any pictures of their flag? Because if the team decides to give them Banner Carriers (assuming that they're getting in), they would probably need an accurate Khandian Banner image.

Myrdin, as much as I think that Khand could have been involved in multi-culturalism between Rhun and Harad, I have always thought of Khand as being more independant of those races. This is such a weak point in my statement but I just think that we should try exploring something new for Khand (assuming that they're in) because I imagine that Rob would only put like one or two units from Khand in the game.

[mike_]

If the Variags of Khand were to be included in this mod, I picture them as being in two conceivable units - axemen on foot and mounted archers.
Both of these are mentioned in the books - "archers upon horses" in an earlier quote, and "swarthy Variags with axes" that surrounded and cut down Forlong of Lossanarch.
Perhaps the mounted archers could (temporarily) fire whilst moving, and have a toggle between axe and bow.
The footmen could be semi-elite infantry, with a "charge" option - increased attack damage over time. They'd also have two-handed axes, IMHO.
The GW models are already linked to, and IMO look fine - not "completely ripped off" of the Japanese samurai (plural already - no need for an s). The banner mounted on their backs looks very original to me, and I also really dig the Mongol-ish helmet design.
Cheers,
-mike

[Myrdin]

or the axeman could be anit building specialist, for rhun fills ( with abit more buffing ) the elite units wery good. actually i would like some quick footed building destroyers - like dunlendigs for Isen