1109 replies to this topic

[Uruk King]

My point is:

Isengard - heavy and seige based faction lacking monsters. With spammable Dunlandings to back them up

Goblins and Mordor - Spamming based, some more powerful infantry later, Monsters to Back them up, and seige in Mordor's case.

[Myrdin]

forgetting - numbers, where mordor, gob, use numbers to overwhelm enemy, Iseng puts in trained, disciplined, strong units abel to take three enemies for every dead uruk.

im not saing that werewargs must be aplied in game, im just saing i would like them to be there
( i imagine them kinda like snow trolls - not the model, but the function -- could trample enemies, but would have resistance to pikes as normal swordsman, they would attack wery quick and deal AoE, and you could get just few batalions . . . and they would have some powers . . . soo basically i think about hero horde - though i know it will newer be aplied in game, i just wanted you to see how i imagine them
all this, or just one werewarg - hero
soo thats the way i see them - i know they wont be in, but at least i wanted to share the opinion

[mike_]

Isengard? I suggested them for Angmar.

[Fyro11]

i would love to get a werewarg ( lol ) hero for Isengard, was dreaming of him for sooo loong

I'd love to be a werewolf lol. Thas right I'm talking about myself LOL. That'd be cool though. Seriously.

We could have the concepts mentioned by Elfhelm but a little more subtly as the majority are not used to nor aware of these.

[Scryer]

From what I remember any werewolves that were mentioned in Tolkien's world, were only mentioned during the time that Morgoth and Sauron were running around togethor. Other than that they were absent from Middle-Earth, or so it seems (correct me if I'm wrong, btw). The concept of werewolves come from very light lore, and if I interpreted it right, that lore doesn't even take place in Middle-Earth. Therefore, I don't see a werewolf fitting in.

[mike_]

Yes, they were most populous during the time of Morgoth's reign in the First Age. It's presumed that they were whittled down throughout the First Age until the War of Wrath, in which most were likely slain.
However...if Dragons and Balrogs could also survive until the end of the Third Age, then why couldn't they?
Cheers,
-mike

[Myrdin]

yeah thats true

[Srg Insane]

Werewolves and Vampires were all in Tolkiens world, in fact im pretty sure that Sauron took on the form of a Werewolf a few times well serving Morgoth. I would like to see some werewolves and vampires in Angmar that would give it, that fun factor of playing it.

[Myrdin]

instead of weird,wersions of trolls

[mike_]

@Sarge: Yes, Sauron took on the form of a "great were-wolf" during his time under Morgoth, in order to fight with Huan the wolf-hound, a massive and powerful...dog.
Regardless, he still got his then-furry ass handed to him
Anyway, this is how I picture the Vampires and Were-wolves of Middle-earth:
Vampire
Werewolf
Yeah, taken from the film "Van Helsing". But they are both realistic and cool
Cheers,
-mike

Edited by elfhelm.., 28 April 2008 - 10:27 PM.

[Fyro11]

@Sarge: Yes, Sauron took on the form of a "great were-wolf" during his time under Morgoth, in order to fight with Huan the wolf-hound, a massive and powerful...dog.
Regardless, he still got his then-furry ass handed to him
Anyway, this is how I picture the Vampires and Were-wolves of Middle-earth:
Vampire
Werewolf
Yeah, taken from the film "Van Helsing". But they are both realistic and cool
Cheers,
-mike

I remember a creature from Warcraft 3: The Frozen Throne called Druid of the Claw. It was a 'Night Elf' ( http://www.warcraft3...idoftheclaw.jpg ), that could turn into a bear ( http://www.battle.ne...s/druidclaw.gif ).

Anyhow I can't remember whether there were any bears in The Silmarillion, there was Beorn (in The Hobbit as you all know), but maybe this could inspire a werewolf . It's totally up to you guys as far as I myself am concerned.

Edited by Fyro11, 28 April 2008 - 09:59 PM.

[mike_]

Hmm...maybe as an incentive for changing form the Vampires and Werewolves (if they're included, of course) could gain a stealth bonus when changing to their human form. They wouldn't be able to attack, but wouldn't be attackable either.
Cheers,
-mike

[Fyro11]

I think stealth movement would be an incentive enough. Making them attack and being attackable should be enabled, but they would obviously be weaker in human form.

And no way should the vampire be like 'Count Dracula'. Something more like from Van Helsing, though less explicit imo.

Edited by Fyro11, 28 April 2008 - 10:20 PM.

[mike_]

Agreed...an elderly man in a filthy tux is not Middle-earth
However..a winged, screaming, blood-thirsty (literally ) horror of the night...is.
Cheers,
-mike

[Scryer]

Is there any actual lore that states that vampires and werewolves were present in Middle-Earth; Or that they came into contact in Middle-Earth between the Fall of Arnor and the War of the Ring; Or if Werewolves and vampires had an important part between those times. If not, then I will take the lore side to this because there is no evidence that states that either of them were anywhere in Middle-Earth or that they had an important role for that matter. Just because Morgoth used them on a different continent doesn't mean that they should be anywhere in Middle-Earth or that Sauron is using them. And just because Sauron temporarily morphed into a werewolf thing under Morgoth's reign on a different continent, doesn't mean that Sauron would be using them anyways.

Unless there is evidence that supports that werewolves and vampires were on the same continent during the time between the Fall of Arnor and The War of the Ring, then I think that it would not make sense to add them.

And in case anyone thinks that there is aggression in this post, there isn't.

Edited by Scryer, 29 April 2008 - 12:00 AM.

[mike_]

No, it never says in any of the books that neither werewolves nor vampires existed or even took part in events after the War of Wrath.
However, it's never stated that Radagast was allied with Rohan, that more than twenty Hobbit archers fought alongside the men of Arnor, or that Corsairs used pyrotechnics.
And quite frankly, it's more logical to assume that werewolves and vampires survived into the Third Age as the rest of Morgoth's minions did in some form - dragons, Balrogs, evil spirits, and of course Orcs were all present in the closing days of the Third Age of the Sun.
So why couldn't two other species?
Cheers,
-mike

[Scryer]

No, it never says in any of the books that neither werewolves nor vampires existed or even took part in events after the War of Wrath.
However, it's never stated that Radagast was allied with Rohan, that more than twenty Hobbit archers fought alongside the men of Arnor, or that Corsairs used pyrotechnics.
And quite frankly, it's more logical to assume that werewolves and vampires survived into the Third Age as the rest of Morgoth's minions did in some form - dragons, Balrogs, evil spirits, and of course Orcs were all present in the closing days of the Third Age of the Sun.
So why couldn't two other species?
Cheers,
-mike

Radagast was a gameplay choice if I remember correctly. I don't want to bring up a whole wizard-faction-alignment discussion, so I'll leave it there. The Hobbits aren't even a faction, therefore I don't think that this mod overplays them. They didn't have that much of a role besides helping out Arnor and the Scurrying of the Shire.... To be honest, I wouldn't object if Rob decides to axe hobbit-units. I think that the 'Corsairs using pyrotechnics' was a good gameplay choice by EA because they wouldn't have had much of a purpose otherwise.... <Most of that is just gameplay choice.

It doesn't matter whether werewolves and vampires could survive into the third age, my point is is that they have no place in the time-frame that the mod takes place in. And even if they did exist, they didn't seem to have that important of a role during the Fall of Arnor and the War of the Ring or else they would have been mentioned somewhere in the books. Not only that but Angmar never used werewolves or vampires.

I don't think that this could be a gamplay choice either because a troll unit/hero could easily give Angmar the fire-power that's missing from Rogash (assuming he's cut) and it would fit in the lore and time-frame nicely.

Edited by Scryer, 29 April 2008 - 01:09 AM.

[mike_]

On that same token, Rogash him(it?)self fits the lore and time-frame nicely.
You're perfectly correct in that a simple troll unit/hero can fill the "heavy weapon" role for Angmar...however, Mordor does the same, does it not?
The werewolves could be used in that position to be unique from Mordor...and to a lesser extent, the vampires as well - though I picture them being more like lesser Nazgul. Example, terror-causing and a fast-moving, flying scout unit.
So...yes.
-mike

[tylerman29]

adding vampires and wherewolves is a bad idea . dont flame

[Devon]

But you're flaming yourself?

Imo...something like walking wolves for angmar...a stronger unit from the troll and wolf den. Vampire should stay out I think unless it's something like a bat swarm.