That's certainly an interesting idea. But these wall designs should really fit their factions. E.g. defensive for Gondor and Erebor, and offensive for Moria and Isengard.
But really this suggestion (and my reply) belongs in the general suggestions, not trying to sound like forum police or anything
SEE Unit Roster
Started by Nazgûl, Sep 27 2007 02:33 AM
124 replies to this topic
#61
Uruk King
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Posted 03 January 2009 - 11:02 AM
I will remember Rhovanion Alliance, RIP .
#62
Nazgûl
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Posted 04 January 2009 - 01:40 PM
True though 
^
^
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#63
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Posted 06 January 2009 - 02:13 PM
ok... i saw faction strutures of SEE. and since a wall is a structure, i thought maybe i'll post it here. didnt know it meant faction structuring. and yep, but the idea is more of adding on to the offensive or defence of the wall. like moria is more offensive, the player could either match the offense with a wall with higher armor, or a wall with more spikes or whatever. adds more into the game play i think, it gives players a chance to maybe make the wall work better for them.
gondor can go on the offense if they wanted to..
gondor can go on the offense if they wanted to..
I'm the nut cracker, and i'll crack your nuts.
#64
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Posted 06 January 2009 - 02:25 PM
*changing name of topic*
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#65
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Posted 06 January 2009 - 09:10 PM
List looks really good! I agree with Sul however... Lose the isen fells and the eagles for other factions.
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#66
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Posted 06 January 2009 - 09:49 PM
I might do that yes... =)
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#67
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Posted 12 January 2009 - 08:02 PM
Personally I think that an eagle for every faction is an awesome idea because it balances the game out. Unless Isengard is going to loose its Fell Beast, the game won't be balanced in terms of 'flight' units anymore...
Edited by Grig, 12 January 2009 - 08:04 PM.
The Dark is patient...
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But in the heart of its power lies weakness...
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#68
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Posted 12 January 2009 - 08:52 PM
In my opinion, I don't think everyone needs a flying unit, part of playing as the different factions is that they each have different strengths, either in archery, infantry, siege etc.... giving everyone a flying unit won't balance out the game, it could just kill it in terms of playability, nobody wants to play factions against each other that have the same strengths and weakness', a chunk of the LOTR books was all about struggle, lets keep that struggle alive in the atmosphere of the game as well.
#69
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Posted 12 January 2009 - 10:26 PM
I don't even like flying units. I usually put my Nazgul on foot.
Greetings, community.
#70
ttandchotmail
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Posted 12 January 2009 - 10:31 PM
Perhaps leaving the fellbeasts for mordor and eagles for the elves might be ok but what about having the eagles as spells for the men and dwarves and fellbeasts as spells for isenguard and moira. That way they would only belong to those factions for a temporary amount of time. Just a thought 
Edited by ttandchotmail, 27 February 2009 - 01:19 PM.
No chance of returning....Zero chance of surviving....Well!? When do we get started?
#71
Sûlherokhh
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Posted 12 January 2009 - 10:59 PM
Good idea. 
Axed Head and A.I. Coder for S.E.E. and ... stuff
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#72
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Posted 12 January 2009 - 11:33 PM
I think that's a fair compromise
#73
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Posted 13 January 2009 - 08:26 AM
Yeah, we'll go with TT's suggestion
The idea of "flyboys" for every faction is an OLD idea that have lingered since BetaIII... and is n longer up to date with the rest of the mod. I'm all for separating factions from eachother and having them more unique
The idea of "flyboys" for every faction is an OLD idea that have lingered since BetaIII... and is n longer up to date with the rest of the mod. I'm all for separating factions from eachother and having them more unique
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#74
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Posted 14 January 2009 - 12:57 AM
Yes, that sounds pretty good. Is the eagle spell a permanent summon?
Greetings, community.
#75
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Posted 27 February 2009 - 10:38 AM
I think elves shouldn’t have the eagle, they have good archers that can shoot down a flyboy and shouldn’t have problem controlling the air. Goblins should have more opportunity to upgrade. I’m actually a player of CnC Generals, and the goblins are much like a faction in the game. When the goblins kills a battalion or what not, there should be like this "thing" on the group and when a goblin horde walks over the "thing", the goblin horde will be upgraded with better weapons, and better amour.
Rational behind this is that the goblins are scavengers, so when they kill a battalion, the battalion leaves behind their amour and weapons on the ground, so being scavengers, the goblins will come and scoop up what’s left of their enemy and take if for their own.
so a goblin horde may be weak in the beginning, they will be stronger each time they kill, and this upgrade keeps stacking and stacking, and soon the goblin hordes will be able to match with isengard in terms of strength.
Naz said he wanted to differentiate the factions, and I think this upgrade thing when the goblin kills a horde will definitely make it more distinct from the other factions.
Rational behind this is that the goblins are scavengers, so when they kill a battalion, the battalion leaves behind their amour and weapons on the ground, so being scavengers, the goblins will come and scoop up what’s left of their enemy and take if for their own.
so a goblin horde may be weak in the beginning, they will be stronger each time they kill, and this upgrade keeps stacking and stacking, and soon the goblin hordes will be able to match with isengard in terms of strength.
Naz said he wanted to differentiate the factions, and I think this upgrade thing when the goblin kills a horde will definitely make it more distinct from the other factions.
#76
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Posted 27 February 2009 - 01:52 PM
That was an awesome idea to the MOD
Against the power of Mordor there can be no victory
#77
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Posted 08 March 2009 - 12:46 PM
Greetings,
I've discovered the mod this friday, not being able to play it yet, I have the game since a few weeks, before I played the BFME 1, and just as you I've been disappointed by the BFME 2, and I must say I really enjoy all your changes you've been able to put in with your BETA IV you present in the pdf and here, it's like a litte miracle to read your comments about all the unnecessary/ugly/stupid/nonLOTR things in these games, and to see they actually can be removed and replaced by the stuff that actually makes the game much more LOTR and film like. Great work, great principles, BIG THANKS to all of you, especially "the 10th" Nazgûl
I am sure you've discussed some of the following points here before, some would perhaps be new, some impossible.
1) the axethrowers... what the hell is that. How many axes do the dwarfs actually produce a day being able to throw hundreds of them during a minor skirmish action. How many axes each axethrower carries being able to throw dozens and dozens of them on the ennemy... Gimli's original ability, limited by recharge, that allows the player to believe Gimli simply recovers his weapon during that time, is fine, the horde of axethrowers and the axes flaying from towers are non-sens ; I have read your discussion about dwarven archers... very important. Will they actually replace the axethrowers ? Will the dwarven towers stop to throw axes and begin to shoot arrows ? There's been a discussion about bows and crossbows for the dwarves ; cannonical or not, the thing I love on this mod is that it is about the films, and there is but one dwarf in the film, true ? Let's have a unit of dwarven scouts with bows, but I would think the dwarfs are, with their mines and warmachines, quite proper for crossbows, and what about slings ? I see it's all about modelling, skining, animating, I know nothing about that, and I will be 100% happy about not seeing the axethrowers anymore...
2) the fire arrows... they look great, everybody understands their high effect, but, in the later stages of the game, they simply make disappear the normal arrows, everybody uses fire arrows, the archers, the crosbowmen, the towers, the only ones who do not are the few heroes. I think this makes the battles unrealistic ; actually the films do not show many fire arrows, do they (if any). If one sees their use during sieges and other specific situations, how could rangers hidden in woods preparing an ambush use fire arrows ? Does every archer or crossbow horde carry oil, every men inflaming each of his arrows regardless the target he shoots at ? Should a ranger aiming at an ordinary orc bother with inflaming his arrow and wasting the oil and time ?
Would it be possible to make the fire arrows not a permanent upgrade for archers, but only an optional ability ? with slower fire rate and accuracy making them usefull only against buildings and monsters, where it makes sens ? clicking on the icon (as it is) would not upgrade the unit with fire arrows but would switch into fire arrow mode, the icon being changed into normal arrow to switch back... if I do not exaggerate, I would also restrict the unit movement when in fire arrow mode, when in this mode, no movement (one needs a bucket with oil or other similar preparations to be able to use fire arrows), that would bring back the normal arrows to our battles... the rohirrim archers with fire arrows ? no, thank you
how would they do that...
3) the archers... the archers show a bit the same problem the axethrowers regarding the number of arrows they carry. That makes the swordsmen hordes very secondary units, sometimes it even is not necessary to use them at all... a few heroes can attract the ennemy hordes while the army of archers shoots and shoots and shoots from the second line. In reality, the archers with 10 or 30 arrows would not shoot and shoot and shoot ("the arrows are expensive, send the cavalry"), and the swords and pikes would be very very important, in all armies the archers were support troops, not the bulk of the army - in BFME, they are the most important infantry - because of the rate of fire combined with their unlimited ammo (and fire arrows)...
Would it be possible to make the archers fire some 10, 20 arrows and than give them some 1 minute (30 seconds, 2 minutes, to be discussed and tested) of "no ammo mode" ? With possibly make them draw their small swords, etc. Combined with the "stop fire" icon, this would bring the necessity to think much more about how, where and when to use the archers, and it would bring the melee infantry back in the game not as "support to the archers", but as main force supported by the archers. With some analogy for the crossbows, and spearmen (who actually do not carry 87 spears to be thrown at their ennemies, how about to make them a bit like roman legionnary, two spears and the sword, with a long recharge pause, and a "spear / pike mode" allowing them to use their spears as pikes...)
4) the horse arches... as I said, no fire arrows ; and perhaps firing arrows when moving ? would that be possible ? I also do not like the switch lance / bow ability for the new rohirrim in BFME 2... I don't think the film shows specific formations of horse archers and of horse lancers/axemen/swordsmen, the rohirrim are all, it seems, volunteers with their own weaponry and equipment, some carrying axes, some using bows, according to their choice and nature. Would it be possible to have a battalion of rohirrim with all weapons mixed together ? That would men a dozen of horsemen with 2 or 3 archers, 2 or 3 axemen, the rest with swords and lances ? With the archers firing during the charge (like the scene from Fangorn, Two Towers), giving the battalion some (tiny) support against flying monsters and finishing of the ennemies being smashed by the charge, etc... if not (again, it's about all the difficult work about animations etc), I would propose to remove the switch bow / lance ability, and to ad a horse archer battalion with switch bow / sword as light cavalry (less riders, loose formation)
5) the Rohan royal guards... how about removing the foot guards and allow the horse guards to mount and dismount, like the heroes do ?
6) formations... the thing I do not like about BFME 2 is that it removes some good points of the BFME 1, including the horde/battalion formations, being replaced by the stance (the stance as it is is a good thing)...
- basic infantry (swords) : closed order (slower, stronger in melee), loose order (faster, bonus against archers, penalty in melee)
- pikemen : closed order (basic, no bonus), phalanx
- uruk-hai with shields : testudo, as seen in Helms Deep (not easy to make, I can imagine)
- archers : skirmish, line (I did not understand how the triangular attack formation from BFME 1 could actually increase the effecivness of the bows or crossbows) where skirmish should ad bonus to defence (against ranged attack) and line to attack (as the fire is better co-ordinated and concentrated ; BFME 1 does opposite, which does not make sens to me)
- cavalry : like infantry, with no difference for the speed, except for turns (closed order would turn around the pivot using more space and needing more time, loose order would let the men act individually)
7) walls... great to see Mordor walls indeed ; how about some basic field fortifications, cheap and week palissade walls that would slow down the ennemy buildable anywhere (with very limited size of course) ? barricades made of trees, wrecks, (dead bodies of the ennemies for the evil factions)...
That would be all for now... dreams perhaps, impossible, these are details, all the improvments you've already done make the game 1000% better the the retail version, and I am looking forward to try it.
Is there anyone in this route with authority to treat with me?
(traduction : what do you say, guys?)
Mouth of Sauron
I've discovered the mod this friday, not being able to play it yet, I have the game since a few weeks, before I played the BFME 1, and just as you I've been disappointed by the BFME 2, and I must say I really enjoy all your changes you've been able to put in with your BETA IV you present in the pdf and here, it's like a litte miracle to read your comments about all the unnecessary/ugly/stupid/nonLOTR things in these games, and to see they actually can be removed and replaced by the stuff that actually makes the game much more LOTR and film like. Great work, great principles, BIG THANKS to all of you, especially "the 10th" Nazgûl
I am sure you've discussed some of the following points here before, some would perhaps be new, some impossible.
1) the axethrowers... what the hell is that. How many axes do the dwarfs actually produce a day being able to throw hundreds of them during a minor skirmish action. How many axes each axethrower carries being able to throw dozens and dozens of them on the ennemy... Gimli's original ability, limited by recharge, that allows the player to believe Gimli simply recovers his weapon during that time, is fine, the horde of axethrowers and the axes flaying from towers are non-sens ; I have read your discussion about dwarven archers... very important. Will they actually replace the axethrowers ? Will the dwarven towers stop to throw axes and begin to shoot arrows ? There's been a discussion about bows and crossbows for the dwarves ; cannonical or not, the thing I love on this mod is that it is about the films, and there is but one dwarf in the film, true ? Let's have a unit of dwarven scouts with bows, but I would think the dwarfs are, with their mines and warmachines, quite proper for crossbows, and what about slings ? I see it's all about modelling, skining, animating, I know nothing about that, and I will be 100% happy about not seeing the axethrowers anymore...
2) the fire arrows... they look great, everybody understands their high effect, but, in the later stages of the game, they simply make disappear the normal arrows, everybody uses fire arrows, the archers, the crosbowmen, the towers, the only ones who do not are the few heroes. I think this makes the battles unrealistic ; actually the films do not show many fire arrows, do they (if any). If one sees their use during sieges and other specific situations, how could rangers hidden in woods preparing an ambush use fire arrows ? Does every archer or crossbow horde carry oil, every men inflaming each of his arrows regardless the target he shoots at ? Should a ranger aiming at an ordinary orc bother with inflaming his arrow and wasting the oil and time ?
Would it be possible to make the fire arrows not a permanent upgrade for archers, but only an optional ability ? with slower fire rate and accuracy making them usefull only against buildings and monsters, where it makes sens ? clicking on the icon (as it is) would not upgrade the unit with fire arrows but would switch into fire arrow mode, the icon being changed into normal arrow to switch back... if I do not exaggerate, I would also restrict the unit movement when in fire arrow mode, when in this mode, no movement (one needs a bucket with oil or other similar preparations to be able to use fire arrows), that would bring back the normal arrows to our battles... the rohirrim archers with fire arrows ? no, thank you
how would they do that...3) the archers... the archers show a bit the same problem the axethrowers regarding the number of arrows they carry. That makes the swordsmen hordes very secondary units, sometimes it even is not necessary to use them at all... a few heroes can attract the ennemy hordes while the army of archers shoots and shoots and shoots from the second line. In reality, the archers with 10 or 30 arrows would not shoot and shoot and shoot ("the arrows are expensive, send the cavalry"), and the swords and pikes would be very very important, in all armies the archers were support troops, not the bulk of the army - in BFME, they are the most important infantry - because of the rate of fire combined with their unlimited ammo (and fire arrows)...
Would it be possible to make the archers fire some 10, 20 arrows and than give them some 1 minute (30 seconds, 2 minutes, to be discussed and tested) of "no ammo mode" ? With possibly make them draw their small swords, etc. Combined with the "stop fire" icon, this would bring the necessity to think much more about how, where and when to use the archers, and it would bring the melee infantry back in the game not as "support to the archers", but as main force supported by the archers. With some analogy for the crossbows, and spearmen (who actually do not carry 87 spears to be thrown at their ennemies, how about to make them a bit like roman legionnary, two spears and the sword, with a long recharge pause, and a "spear / pike mode" allowing them to use their spears as pikes...)
4) the horse arches... as I said, no fire arrows ; and perhaps firing arrows when moving ? would that be possible ? I also do not like the switch lance / bow ability for the new rohirrim in BFME 2... I don't think the film shows specific formations of horse archers and of horse lancers/axemen/swordsmen, the rohirrim are all, it seems, volunteers with their own weaponry and equipment, some carrying axes, some using bows, according to their choice and nature. Would it be possible to have a battalion of rohirrim with all weapons mixed together ? That would men a dozen of horsemen with 2 or 3 archers, 2 or 3 axemen, the rest with swords and lances ? With the archers firing during the charge (like the scene from Fangorn, Two Towers), giving the battalion some (tiny) support against flying monsters and finishing of the ennemies being smashed by the charge, etc... if not (again, it's about all the difficult work about animations etc), I would propose to remove the switch bow / lance ability, and to ad a horse archer battalion with switch bow / sword as light cavalry (less riders, loose formation)
5) the Rohan royal guards... how about removing the foot guards and allow the horse guards to mount and dismount, like the heroes do ?
6) formations... the thing I do not like about BFME 2 is that it removes some good points of the BFME 1, including the horde/battalion formations, being replaced by the stance (the stance as it is is a good thing)...
- basic infantry (swords) : closed order (slower, stronger in melee), loose order (faster, bonus against archers, penalty in melee)
- pikemen : closed order (basic, no bonus), phalanx
- uruk-hai with shields : testudo, as seen in Helms Deep (not easy to make, I can imagine)
- archers : skirmish, line (I did not understand how the triangular attack formation from BFME 1 could actually increase the effecivness of the bows or crossbows) where skirmish should ad bonus to defence (against ranged attack) and line to attack (as the fire is better co-ordinated and concentrated ; BFME 1 does opposite, which does not make sens to me)
- cavalry : like infantry, with no difference for the speed, except for turns (closed order would turn around the pivot using more space and needing more time, loose order would let the men act individually)
7) walls... great to see Mordor walls indeed ; how about some basic field fortifications, cheap and week palissade walls that would slow down the ennemy buildable anywhere (with very limited size of course) ? barricades made of trees, wrecks, (dead bodies of the ennemies for the evil factions)...
That would be all for now... dreams perhaps, impossible, these are details, all the improvments you've already done make the game 1000% better the the retail version, and I am looking forward to try it.
Is there anyone in this route with authority to treat with me?
(traduction : what do you say, guys?)Mouth of Sauron
#78
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Posted 08 March 2009 - 02:15 PM
My master, Sauron the Great, bids thee welcome,
I am back with a few other thaughts, I did not have time to present in the previous post.
ad 3) the archers... no damage to the buildings and siege equipment by normal arrows (again, it's about making the archers more realistic, less effective)
8) good side siege weapons do not shoot if friendly units would be hit (unless ordered to bombard a point of the map) ; the evil side would only care about the heroes (if possible) ; the catapults and trebuchets should be slowed down and much more vulnerable to the direct melee attack (as these mechanisms can be made useless by only small damage of the most important parts, can't they)... and also, would it be possible to make the crews a bit more intelligent and aim better on moving troops ? It's ridiculous to see them shoot ten stones hiting allways a dozen of steps behind the marching horde ; the isengard ballistas, are they less effective against the buildings ? I would say they should be, and they should be more effective against the troops.
9) no sword can destroy any building, but any horde can make a building fire... it takes time and a wooden house will burn better than a stone tower; it might work like capturing the neutral buildings, you order your swordsmen to attack a farm, it will take some time, the men will not try to destroy their weapons by hitting the stone walls, but after that time, the building would be destroyed (quickly or slowly according to what building is that) by fire... if one wants to destroy any stucture, he should come with siege weapons and fire, not with swords or lances and not with arrows.
10) a minor one... Aragorn's "Elendil" ability... it makes his ennemies flee, excellent
but... he does not shout "Elendil" to save his ennemies, does he. Boromir has his horn, the ennemies are frightened, he may either run or keep smashing them, it's ok, but this "Elendil", what does it serve to ? Maybe to get through the 1st line troops to reach the 2nd line, destroy the siege weapons, reach a hero, maybe... but this can be done even without that ability and I believe that if anybody ever uses this ability, it's when Aragorn is badly wounded and needs time to break off the fight, and here his "Elendil" looks a bit ridiculous. Instead of that, should he be able to mount Brego ? With his "Elendil" being shouted as one of the SFX when he is ordered to charge (like his "Slay him", etc)
---
The following concerns the "War of the Ring" mode of the game, which actually is the one I purchased the game for.
1) replace the ugly map of BFME 2 with the beautiful BFME 1 one, with no team color shade over each territory, with just the borders marked as it works in the BFME 1 campaign
2) for the armies, follow the same system the BFME 1 campaign does, it means, a unit you build in your first battle marches with you untill it's death or to the end of the game... it's good to be able to build units during the strategical turns, but why should only these be the core troops, with all the others diseappearing... of course, everything given by the command points (the system would need improvments in this point of course)
3) the same for the structures... it's quite ennoying to spend 2 hours in Osgiliath, building a very nice fortress with walls, upgrades and everything, and being attacked in Osgiliath in the next turn with no structure at all... it kills the campaign feeling. Balance ? Well, if the opposing army brings in not just the hero, two builders and 3 core units, but an entire army of some 1000 command points, veterans of many battles faught before, it will be able to protect the foundation of it's own base (or even attack directly your settlement)... while you could improve and upgrade and complete your works.
4) enable the "garison" armies to attack an ennemy territory... why should one be limited by the number of active heroes, there are generals, other officers, why should Saruman join his raiding party of uruks personally to be able to attack a Rohan region, etc.
---
I have a token I was bidden to show thee... if these thaughts are of any use.
Mouth of Sauron
I am back with a few other thaughts, I did not have time to present in the previous post.
ad 3) the archers... no damage to the buildings and siege equipment by normal arrows (again, it's about making the archers more realistic, less effective)
8) good side siege weapons do not shoot if friendly units would be hit (unless ordered to bombard a point of the map) ; the evil side would only care about the heroes (if possible) ; the catapults and trebuchets should be slowed down and much more vulnerable to the direct melee attack (as these mechanisms can be made useless by only small damage of the most important parts, can't they)... and also, would it be possible to make the crews a bit more intelligent and aim better on moving troops ? It's ridiculous to see them shoot ten stones hiting allways a dozen of steps behind the marching horde ; the isengard ballistas, are they less effective against the buildings ? I would say they should be, and they should be more effective against the troops.
9) no sword can destroy any building, but any horde can make a building fire... it takes time and a wooden house will burn better than a stone tower; it might work like capturing the neutral buildings, you order your swordsmen to attack a farm, it will take some time, the men will not try to destroy their weapons by hitting the stone walls, but after that time, the building would be destroyed (quickly or slowly according to what building is that) by fire... if one wants to destroy any stucture, he should come with siege weapons and fire, not with swords or lances and not with arrows.
10) a minor one... Aragorn's "Elendil" ability... it makes his ennemies flee, excellent
but... he does not shout "Elendil" to save his ennemies, does he. Boromir has his horn, the ennemies are frightened, he may either run or keep smashing them, it's ok, but this "Elendil", what does it serve to ? Maybe to get through the 1st line troops to reach the 2nd line, destroy the siege weapons, reach a hero, maybe... but this can be done even without that ability and I believe that if anybody ever uses this ability, it's when Aragorn is badly wounded and needs time to break off the fight, and here his "Elendil" looks a bit ridiculous. Instead of that, should he be able to mount Brego ? With his "Elendil" being shouted as one of the SFX when he is ordered to charge (like his "Slay him", etc)---
The following concerns the "War of the Ring" mode of the game, which actually is the one I purchased the game for.
1) replace the ugly map of BFME 2 with the beautiful BFME 1 one, with no team color shade over each territory, with just the borders marked as it works in the BFME 1 campaign
2) for the armies, follow the same system the BFME 1 campaign does, it means, a unit you build in your first battle marches with you untill it's death or to the end of the game... it's good to be able to build units during the strategical turns, but why should only these be the core troops, with all the others diseappearing... of course, everything given by the command points (the system would need improvments in this point of course)
3) the same for the structures... it's quite ennoying to spend 2 hours in Osgiliath, building a very nice fortress with walls, upgrades and everything, and being attacked in Osgiliath in the next turn with no structure at all... it kills the campaign feeling. Balance ? Well, if the opposing army brings in not just the hero, two builders and 3 core units, but an entire army of some 1000 command points, veterans of many battles faught before, it will be able to protect the foundation of it's own base (or even attack directly your settlement)... while you could improve and upgrade and complete your works.
4) enable the "garison" armies to attack an ennemy territory... why should one be limited by the number of active heroes, there are generals, other officers, why should Saruman join his raiding party of uruks personally to be able to attack a Rohan region, etc.
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I have a token I was bidden to show thee... if these thaughts are of any use.
Mouth of Sauron
#79
witchkingshour
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Posted 08 March 2009 - 02:21 PM
Your thoughts are all understandable. There were fire arrows in the movies, but not too much. I wouldn't mind if we could see just regular arrows for all the archers. I think Heavy armor is fine and banner carrier's.. I dunno about Forged Blades. I also would like to see this mod based on siege. So really catapults and battering rams destroy most buildings as well as Ents and trolls.
"The world of Men will fall"
#80
Guest_Mouth of Sauron_*
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Posted 08 March 2009 - 04:41 PM
Many of the ideas above are, as I can see, included in the plans for BETA V :
http://forums.revora...showtopic=55436
...that's simply wonderful...
For the War of the Ring, and even generally, would it be possible to make some heroes mortal ? I mean definitively mortal, dead is dead ? "You can't kill them, no..." ... the Nazguls would reappear, but Gothmog ? War of the Ring without Aragorn or Gandalf would not be nice, but Boromir or Theoden were killed... etc.
I love the idea about replacing the Dark Queen with timer to the destruction of Barad Dur, but generally, wouldn't that mean the game will be over, while the evil factions get "only" the mighty hero ? it might reduce the entire good side strategy into looking for Gollum, defending the fortress and waiting. It's fine in one battle from twenty, but Gollum is everywhere, which is one of the weakneses I see in the entire concept. The other problem might appear if you choose to play a skirmish or multiplayer game with Gondor against Dwarfs, etc. What would than be the effect ? (it would not concern me, I would never try such a thing...)
What about making Gollum appear only in some (Mordor) maps ? It would fit well with the story. Something like that... in fact this Gollum concept is the most non-LOTR and non-film aspect of the game, because it is not Gollum who bears the ring anymore, it's Frodo, and before Fordo, it was Bilbo. I would even vote to remove this from the game if I could, and replace it with another ring system, but I see it already is too much.*
I also would not make Balrog a ring hero for Moria, Balrog has nothing to do with the ring, he could not use it I think. Instead, Goblins might get, if they get the ring, after some time, a morale bonus and reinforcements from Mordor, led by Sauron perhaps ? And I was thinking about Saruman... he is reffered to as "Sauron's puppet", could he keep the One Ring and use it him-self ? Wasn't Sauron's domination of Saruman's will already definitive ? I would propose the same think, morale bonus and Sauron's reinforcements (that would be strange in case of an evil vs evil battle, but already to do such a battle is strange...)
As about Balrog, the idea of fear is good, no unit would ever try to get close to this monster... including the evil faction units I guess, shouldn't these also run away from Balrog (like the goblins of Moria in the Fellowship). The other thing is that this monster will certainly be, except for Sauron perhaps, the far most powerful being of the game, if he cannot be attacked but by archers, siege equipment and Gandalf, his appearance also should be very very limited, expensive and rare, limited let's say to chosen maps if possible (Moria, Mordor, Dol Guldur maybe ?) The same for the oathbrakers... summonable only in Gondor, with no chance to bring them to other lands... only with Aragorn on the map. Aragorn would loose the ability to summon them, instead he might get some other nice thing (kill an ennemy hero ability... he has slayed Lurtz, Gothmog (50%), the Nazguls, Mouth of Sauron (in the film)... quite quickly and, except for Lurtz maybe, without too much difficulties).
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* ...if the modders managed to create the other Gollum, it perhaps might be possible, for some future releases, to think about a complete different story... in specific maps there would be no Gollum, but Frodo with the Ring and Sam protecting him ; using all their abilities to sneak from one point to another, where they would disappear from the map. These maps would obviously be the regions they actually passed on their way to Mordor, no one would find them in Grey Havens or in Harad. The good side would protect them, the evil side would try to catch them. If catched and not rescued by destruction of the fortress in a given time, in another given time Sauron arrives with reinforcements.
No bonus for the good side if both hobits pass safely the map, but also no tragedy, "there is still hope..."
Of course, all this might get another dimensions for the War of the Ring mode. As I said, I am sure all this is very complicated, it's just some ideas... the proposition that might work from all this is the fear effect of Balrog on all units, including the evil factions. The rest are more or less fantasies of somebody who has no idea about what the modding can change and how long it takes.
Mouth of Sauron
http://forums.revora...showtopic=55436
...that's simply wonderful...
For the War of the Ring, and even generally, would it be possible to make some heroes mortal ? I mean definitively mortal, dead is dead ? "You can't kill them, no..." ... the Nazguls would reappear, but Gothmog ? War of the Ring without Aragorn or Gandalf would not be nice, but Boromir or Theoden were killed... etc.
I love the idea about replacing the Dark Queen with timer to the destruction of Barad Dur, but generally, wouldn't that mean the game will be over, while the evil factions get "only" the mighty hero ? it might reduce the entire good side strategy into looking for Gollum, defending the fortress and waiting. It's fine in one battle from twenty, but Gollum is everywhere, which is one of the weakneses I see in the entire concept. The other problem might appear if you choose to play a skirmish or multiplayer game with Gondor against Dwarfs, etc. What would than be the effect ? (it would not concern me, I would never try such a thing...)
What about making Gollum appear only in some (Mordor) maps ? It would fit well with the story. Something like that... in fact this Gollum concept is the most non-LOTR and non-film aspect of the game, because it is not Gollum who bears the ring anymore, it's Frodo, and before Fordo, it was Bilbo. I would even vote to remove this from the game if I could, and replace it with another ring system, but I see it already is too much.*
I also would not make Balrog a ring hero for Moria, Balrog has nothing to do with the ring, he could not use it I think. Instead, Goblins might get, if they get the ring, after some time, a morale bonus and reinforcements from Mordor, led by Sauron perhaps ? And I was thinking about Saruman... he is reffered to as "Sauron's puppet", could he keep the One Ring and use it him-self ? Wasn't Sauron's domination of Saruman's will already definitive ? I would propose the same think, morale bonus and Sauron's reinforcements (that would be strange in case of an evil vs evil battle, but already to do such a battle is strange...)
As about Balrog, the idea of fear is good, no unit would ever try to get close to this monster... including the evil faction units I guess, shouldn't these also run away from Balrog (like the goblins of Moria in the Fellowship). The other thing is that this monster will certainly be, except for Sauron perhaps, the far most powerful being of the game, if he cannot be attacked but by archers, siege equipment and Gandalf, his appearance also should be very very limited, expensive and rare, limited let's say to chosen maps if possible (Moria, Mordor, Dol Guldur maybe ?) The same for the oathbrakers... summonable only in Gondor, with no chance to bring them to other lands... only with Aragorn on the map. Aragorn would loose the ability to summon them, instead he might get some other nice thing (kill an ennemy hero ability... he has slayed Lurtz, Gothmog (50%), the Nazguls, Mouth of Sauron (in the film)... quite quickly and, except for Lurtz maybe, without too much difficulties).
---
* ...if the modders managed to create the other Gollum, it perhaps might be possible, for some future releases, to think about a complete different story... in specific maps there would be no Gollum, but Frodo with the Ring and Sam protecting him ; using all their abilities to sneak from one point to another, where they would disappear from the map. These maps would obviously be the regions they actually passed on their way to Mordor, no one would find them in Grey Havens or in Harad. The good side would protect them, the evil side would try to catch them. If catched and not rescued by destruction of the fortress in a given time, in another given time Sauron arrives with reinforcements.
No bonus for the good side if both hobits pass safely the map, but also no tragedy, "there is still hope..."
Of course, all this might get another dimensions for the War of the Ring mode. As I said, I am sure all this is very complicated, it's just some ideas... the proposition that might work from all this is the fear effect of Balrog on all units, including the evil factions. The rest are more or less fantasies of somebody who has no idea about what the modding can change and how long it takes.
Mouth of Sauron
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