853 replies to this topic

[Meyerm]

Not to mention that emp+kappa tank is the only way Yunru can directly destroy something with her primary attack.

[Atomic_Noodles]

Borillos and Marauders on the other hand DO have hover skirts... But that poses a question to why the Allied & Soviet Amphibious Transports sink too...

[Protozoan]

I don't know what you are talking about Protozoan. If the Battle Fortress is loaded with troops, then the troops will attack the cruiser.

 

The Kappa and EMP story won't change, because an amphibious tank gives much tactical advantage and eventually Kappa Tanks can retreat to the waters from ground enemies.

 

Yes, it should, it's difficult to tell when a clusterfuck battle happens, but either it isn't or it can't get within range as the Cruiser keeps EM pulsing it. It gets destroyed ridiculously fast, I'm sure there are others who will vouch for me.

 

The Kappa and EMP story is the most retarded design flaw I've ever heard of, you make your whole army of basic tanks out of expensive hovering vehicles that will blow up when they fall into the water? When your main enemy is the Chinese, who utilize EMP at every opportunity? We know the Kappas were pretty much designed to travel over sea and help take the Islands, I seriously doubt anyone in their right mind is going to create a hover tank just for crossing rivers.

 

They would either make them EMP resistant or at least have some kind of back up in case the power failed. Gameplay-wise, it's just excuses, falling into the water and blowing up when hit by EMP shouldn't be it's drawback, I mean it's already a slow turd as it is, it's difficult to use it efficiently on land. I quote "Kappa is useless" - [P]etya, check the IRC chat history if you don't believe me.

 

Was this an intentional design decision?

[Graion Dilach]

It's a limit of units with the Hover locomotor (as in, using the wobbling loco). Robot Tank also suffers from this.

[Meyerm]

This is a tactical problem then. Work around the enemy's EMP usage. Use decoys to get them to use their EMP, then strike while it's recharging. Get some Aegis cruisers to stop dragonflys, and keep watch for Yunru.

[mevitar]

All sides have something that sinks when EMPed. Imagine a Zubr filled with Demo Trucks or Mandjet with an MCV sinking due to a single Dragonfly... Of course the owner might be angry, but does that mean they should be made immune to EMP?
Psi Corps also has Magnetrons, which is the most expensive unit to sink due to EMP, much more expensive and somewhat slower than Kappas, yet nobody seems to complain about it (and i don't see a reason for anyone to complain anyway, since it's not hard to keep your hover units on the ground until EMP is used/disabled, or escort them with AA vs Dragonflies).
If Kappas would be immune, shouldn't Magnetrons become immune too? After all, why wouldn't Psi Corps steal the EMP immunity technology from PF along with everything else they took, or just mount the Magnetron's weapon on a Kappa?

Also, Allies have access to a unit that can quickly destroy the structure that provides China with EMP on any map at all: Baraccudas. And no, don't tell me that you can't use Baraccudas because of AA, as bases always have openings through which you can sneak in. If they don't, the game either already lasts too long or you don't attack with your ground forces enough. If you use them frequently, China won't even have a chance to use EMP against you. If you can't use them, you have to figure out a way to make an opening so you can.

Also, think of it this way: at the time Kappas first appear (Side Effect) China doesn't use any EMP except EMP Mines, and they start using Dragonflies only near the end of the war, never using the EMP support itself (if they do use it in the campaign now, as they did in Unshakeable at one point, it's a bug). At that time, nobody expected them to go this much EMP happy, and nobody prepared for it.

Edited by mevitar, 15 May 2014 - 01:04 PM.

[Protozoan]

I'm just going to ride out on the hopes that since teching up will take longer, and the EMP support power having it's own tech structure, will allow a much larger gap to make Kappas effective in Naval battles against China.

 

But as it is now, it's just silly. Barracudas take a long time to build, they're expensive, and stationing my kappas on land would make the fleet more vulnerable and impossible to have control of the map. A support power and unit that essentially 1 hit kill your tanks on the water is not balanced. It turns the entire tide of the game just because of that ability.

Edited by Protozoan, 15 May 2014 - 01:21 PM.

[Meyerm]

First I'd like to point out that amphib. transports don't sink when emp is used on them, they just float on the water. There are more than one way to stop emp from being used. Destroy power plants, spy power plants, and I'm assuming (if not, it should) that emp center is spyable too, or time attacks accordingly, even using diversions if necessary. PF is the closest and most imminent threat to China. It would be fitting for them to have a little bit extra to counter them.

[mevitar]

This is only true if by "amphibious transports" you mean Borillos.

Edited by mevitar, 15 May 2014 - 10:07 PM.

[Meyerm]

Hmm, I swear I've seen amphib. transports surviving emp over water. Must have been tiny bits of land I didn't see.

[Graion Dilach]

Haven't seen the amphtranses for a while now, but maybe they use ordinary locomotor instead of the hovering one...

[MIG]

Tyrant and Abrams should be more buff.
Abrams need more hp.

Edited by MIG, 20 May 2014 - 03:12 PM.

[fff]

The tyrants already got big buffs in BR2 so don't worry.

 

I think the Abrams tank is fine for the moment they are fast attackers. In BR2 it got cheaper and increased attack range thou wouldn't mind a minor HP buff

[mevitar]

I'm playing as USA quite a bit, and my only issue with current Abrams is that, for everything it does and has (except it's speed, but it's only higher by 1), Catastrophe is better. More firepower, more armor, slightly larger range, can attack air, and if a Desolator is inside, it will deal with infantry as well as 2 Abramses. Sure, Cata is more expensive (by 150... you will be able to buy 1 estra dog for that! ), but with Industrial Plant it also costs and builds as 1200 worth unit. Not really hard to get as many Catas as the USA has Abramses. Clearly, Americans should learn from the Latinos how to build their tanks.

Luckily for USA, they can still deal with Catas (although not with Tanya, she will die if any Catastrophe has a Desolator inside). Scorpion Cell can't, because of immunity to Tyrant's crush (and tbh, it's too big to be crushable anyway). Good luck attacking Catas with T1 or T2 anti tank when Morales is nearby (although he himself should be easier to kill in BR2, because Weaver Trap will be better at killing heroes than Molebomb was).

Cata nerf incoming in 3... 2... 1... ;(

Edited by mevitar, 20 May 2014 - 10:28 PM.

[Toveena]

But still  u can have the other approach -- buff Abrams

Edited by Toveena, 20 May 2014 - 10:59 PM.

[Darkstorm]

Also, according the MO site, the catastrophe also costs more. (I'm not saying it still can't be imbalanced, but the Allies have always been about the idea of weaker but cheaper.)

On an unrelated note, why are the Catastrophe's missiles called 'schturm' missiles? That seems to have little to no meaning unlike the 'Saturn' lasers on the Abrams.

Edited by Darkstorm, 21 May 2014 - 01:44 AM.

[MIG]

Abrams costs 1400.
Catastrophe with Industrial Plant costs 1200.:(

[Toveena]

Abrams costs 1400.
Catastrophe with Industrial Plant costs 1200.:(

Indeed, Cata beats Abrams single-handedly from all aspects(No, speed is a non-factor in this case).

[Darkstorm]

Abrams costs 1400.
Catastrophe with Industrial Plant costs 1200.:(

 

And I guess that Ore Purifier does nothing at all. (It's the Allied counterpart to the Industrial Plant, so more money instead of a discount.)

Although again, you're not necessarily wrong, in fact I think you're probably right about the balance.

Edited by Darkstorm, 21 May 2014 - 05:56 AM.

[MIG]

I hope increase Abrams' damage and HP slightly.XD