88 replies to this topic

[Black/Brunez]

The repair drone for the task wouldn't be a hood idea IMO becoz it's access is was too much limited. The low armor does not help neither.

Edited by Black/Brunez, 16 December 2013 - 02:39 PM.

[mevitar]

Drones could be given a stationary mode, in which they don't attack unless ordered to. Of course, that doesn't change their crappy armor.
 

Allied: T1 Robot Tank, T2 Navy Seal, T3 Heroes (except Norio) Shipyard unit : Destroyer

Soviet: T1 Terror drone, T2 Tesla trooper , T3 Heroes Shipyard unit: Typhoon Attack Sub, Dreadnought/Akula

Epsilon: T1 Stinger, T2 Dunerider, Shadow Tank, T3 Heroes Shipyard unit: Piranha, Squid, Resheph

It's the Allies (Pacific Front in particular) that has the least stealth detectors. HQ with their Shadow Tanks has the most. Soviets don't lack naval stealth detection, even with Borillo losing stealth detection.

Epsilon still has the most options for naval stealth detection, but unlike Seals and Ivans, Duneriders won't help you against subs, since they're anti infantry and anti structure.

Edited by mevitar, 16 December 2013 - 12:46 PM.

[Jargalhurts]

The repair drone for the task wouldn't be a hood idea IMO becoz it's access is was too much linited. The low armor does not help neither.

But the Terror Drones and Borillos both have their big issues compared to the Repair Drone.

Terror Drone - These would make Ghost Miners obsolete, they can detect stealth and will stay inside the Miners even when it regains cloak. And they have a very annoying tendency to get involved in the wrong situations at the wrong times, so it would prove troublesome to manage.

Borillo - It's T2, so Soviets wouldn't have any unit decent enough to detect stealth in T1. Besides, Borillo has a lot of features (Flamethrower, Transport, Amphibious). Adding more is just a stretch.

 

And, I think Repair Drone's armor and health problem could be easily handled by proper nerfing and buffing. Besides, the Repair Drone is also amphibious. If it doesn't have much access as others, you could increase it's decloaking radius to compensate.

 

/But thinking back, giving Terror Drones cloak detection might not be that bad. But would prove to be really irksome for Epsilon players./

 

 

EDIT: OOR, I have another suggestion. Halftracks and Tsivils could have a logic similar to Stingers. Stingers are converted into a repair vehicle when an Engineer enters it. WHAT IF, Halftracks and Tsivils are converted into stealth detectors when a Dog enters it. Something like that.

Edited by Jargalhurts, 16 December 2013 - 01:57 PM.

[OmegaBolt]

Drones could be given a stationary mode, in which they don't attack unless ordered to. Of course, that doesn't change their crappy armor.

Then... perhaps you could make Terror Drones deploy into 'detector' mines of some sort, perhaps with greater range than other T1 detectors to counter their immobility and light armour.

[Petya]

They can infect Ghost Miners, but still repair units can remove them.

[Protozoan]

 

The repair drone for the task wouldn't be a hood idea IMO becoz it's access is was too much linited. The low armor does not help neither.

But the Terror Drones and Borillos both have their big issues compared to the Repair Drone.

Terror Drone - These would make Ghost Miners obsolete, they can detect stealth and will stay inside the Miners even when it regains cloak. 

They can infect Ghost Miners, but still repair units can remove them.

This

 

And they have a very annoying tendency to get involved in the wrong situations at the wrong times, so it would prove troublesome to manage.

Borillo - It's T2, so Soviets wouldn't have any unit decent enough to detect stealth in T1. Besides, Borillo has a lot of features (Flamethrower, Transport, Amphibious). Adding more is just a stretch.

 

 

Drones could be given a stationary mode, in which they don't attack unless ordered to. Of course, that doesn't change their crappy armor.

That

 

 

And, I think Repair Drone's armor and health problem could be easily handled by proper nerfing and buffing. Besides, the Repair Drone is also amphibious. If it doesn't have much access as others, you could increase it's decloaking radius to compensate.

 

/But thinking back, giving Terror Drones cloak detection might not be that bad. But would prove to be really irksome for Epsilon players./

 

Good

 

EDIT: OOR, I have another suggestion. Halftracks and Tsivils could have a logic similar to Stingers. Stingers are converted into a repair vehicle when an Engineer enters it. WHAT IF, Halftracks and Tsivils are converted into stealth detectors when a Dog enters it. Something like that.

 

 

 

 

Drones could be given a stationary mode, in which they don't attack unless ordered to. Of course, that doesn't change their crappy armor.

Then... perhaps you could make Terror Drones deploy into 'detector' mines of some sort, perhaps with greater range than other T1 detectors to counter their immobility and light armour.

 

 

Sounds even better.

[Admiral_Pit]

Terror Drones need the stealth detection.  While for me I think the Borillo as the T2 detector would be unique in its own right which could be used to search for subs in the waters, though the Borillo would probably attack them anyways and fail at damaging them well.  However, I feel the Terror Drones need it more, being a robot of the sort, and likely to be more cost-efficient despite being fragile.  Plus Terror Drones will get to see the battle more often if they detect stealth.

[Mister_Pants]

I see a lot of strong points about putting the Terror Drone as a detector. However, I feel like it should indeed stay on the Borillo. As Doomhammer mentioned, Epsilon players would be at a huge loss, for they'd have to create Repair Stingers much quicker than before, burning up the precious, precious credits that are very much needed in the early game. As for the other factions, they can defend themselves relatively well against drones; the Allies being able to Chrono their miners back to the base, and the War Miners with their super duper pew pew gun. However! If indeed the shift of detection goes on over to the Terror Drone, I have an idea. Terror Drones now can detonate themselves to send out a small Sonar Pulse around it, revealing nearby invisible units for X seconds. Doing so however,overloads the little guy's circuits temporarily,for the same amount of time, but allows other Terror Drones to hop on the Terrorizing Train, to which there are no stops. It would a be a compromise to both parties, I think. Giving the Terror Drone the ability to detect, but not making it too unbalanced to Epsilon Players.

Edited by Mister_Pants, 17 December 2013 - 04:16 AM.

[Protozoan]

I see a lot of strong points about putting the Terror Drone as a detector. However, I feel like it should indeed stay on the Borillo. As Doomhammer mentioned, Epsilon players would be at a huge loss, for they'd have to create Repair Stingers much quicker than before, burning up the precious, precious credits that are very much needed in the early game. As for the other factions, they can defend themselves relatively well against drones; the Allies being able to Chrono their miners back to the base, and the War Miners with their super duper pew pew gun. However! If indeed the shift of detection goes on over to the Terror Drone, I have an idea. Terror Drones now can detonate themselves to send out a small Sonar Pulse around it, revealing nearby invisible units for X seconds. Doing so however,overloads the little guy's circuits temporarily,for the same amount of time, but allows other Terror Drones to hop on the Terrorizing Train, to which there are no stops. It would a be a compromise to both parties, I think. Giving the Terror Drone the ability to detect, but not making it too unbalanced to Epsilon Players.

 

It takes literally 1 Stinger & an Engineer to get rid of the Drone, ONE!

[Mister_Pants]

It takes literally 1 Stinger & an Engineer to get rid of the Drone, ONE!

 

 Indeed it does! However, the fact is it'll be quite common for Epsilon Players to build a Stinger+Engineer combo much earlier than they'd probably like, chewing up the 850 credits they'd probably wanna spend on another Ghost Miner, seeing as an early game economy is crucial to being remotely successful.

[Protozoan]

 

It takes literally 1 Stinger & an Engineer to get rid of the Drone, ONE!

 

 Indeed it does! However, the fact is it'll be quite common for Epsilon Players to build a Stinger+Engineer combo much earlier than they'd probably like, chewing up the 850 credits they'd probably wanna spend on another Ghost Miner, seeing as an early game economy is crucial to being remotely successful.

 

 

And Soviet players want to waste their precious resources on Terror Drones that will just get removed after they try to get it to attack a Ghost Miner.

[Mister_Pants]

 

 

It takes literally 1 Stinger & an Engineer to get rid of the Drone, ONE!

 

 Indeed it does! However, the fact is it'll be quite common for Epsilon Players to build a Stinger+Engineer combo much earlier than they'd probably like, chewing up the 850 credits they'd probably wanna spend on another Ghost Miner, seeing as an early game economy is crucial to being remotely successful.

 

 

And Soviet players want to waste their precious resources on Terror Drones that will just get removed after they try to get it to attack a Ghost Miner.

 

It's official, don't rush Terror Drones, it's lose-lose!

[Protozoan]

The Stinger + Engineer combo can be a long-term solution for the Terror Drones, so as long as you keep that Stinger + Engineer safe, Terror Drone attacks are pretty much redundant for most of the match, esp. against Ghost Miners anyway.

[Zenothist]

From a design perspective, my vote goes to the Terror Drone. 

 

The fact that it's a robot, T1 unit that detects stealth makes it more easily 'readable' for players who start out with the mod, specifically the Soviets.

Robot Tanks and Stingers are T1 robots with stealth detection, so it 'makes sense' that the Terror Drones have detection. It's what players would expect. 

 

The Borillo with stealth detection is difficult to read and clashes with previously estabilished conventions due to its design and role (heavy amphibious APC and anti-structure instead of light, robotic, anti-infantry). This can make it very confusing for players and probably explains why some people have a sense of 'wrongness' about it.

 

It also gives further utility to an already potent unit that does not need it in order to remain effective.

 

Consider that the T1 robot units could all have their own unique boon. Robot Tanks would be amphibious, Terror Drones work well vs anti-armor, and Stingers are very effective against infantry. As mentioned in previous posts in this thread, it could also make the Drone more relevant in late-game battles, as the Borillo is already a viable unit to use all the way to the end of the game.

 

I'm all for the idea to make them more reliable as detectors (i.e. less eager to lovingly glomp the first tank they set their beady little sensors on).

Edited by Zenothist, 17 December 2013 - 09:38 AM.

[mevitar]

It takes literally 1 Stinger & an Engineer to get rid of the Drone, ONE!

It takes literally 1 Terror Drone to destroy that Stinger. You need at least 2 Stingers with engineers, otherwise you're going to lose it when playing against a good player.

[lovalmidas]

Why is there no vote to give stealth detection to the Conscript?

 

Anyway, I vote for the Terror Drone. Yes, it is suicidal and has paper armor, but it will also be the fastest detector unit in the whole game. The Soviets lack a Tier 1 unit that can detect cloaked units. (And I'm all for nerfing Borillo in any little way possible )

 

Since Ares 0.5 will ensure that terror drones continue to infest cloaked units, terror drones "popping out" of a ghost miner will be a non-issue.

 

(Note though: Singularity will be almost unbeatable if you give stealth detection to terror drones. )

[Zenothist]

I'm sure the immense satisfaction of finally being able to successfully ram killer robot spiders up the collective tail pipes of Shadow Tank spammers everywhere will compensate for any and all other issues that may arise.

Edited by Zenothist, 17 January 2014 - 08:12 AM.

[OmegaBolt]

Since Ares 0.5 will ensure that terror drones continue to infest cloaked units, terror drones "popping out" of a ghost miner will be a non-issue.

I'd say it's more of an issue that they DON'T get kicked out. Means Ghost Miners have no protection against Drones, unlike the other two miners.

[zocker4ever]

I'm sure the immense satisfaction of finally being able to succesfully ram killer robot spiders up the collective tail pipe of Shadow Tank spam will compensate for any and all other issues that may arise.

 

It's a beta, nothing is final. Screw those who complain

 

Anyway, also one reason why I would like giving Terror Drones detectors is simply because it is more consistant.

When you are new, it's not easy to know and to find out which units are capable of detecting cloak (that's why I suggested a small eye like icon in the left corner or such units). But if you see that robots in general are capable of doing so, you can apply this knowledge to other units as well.

 

Your MO 3.0 unit mini bible is great... as long as you are not playing and have a good memory.

[Zenothist]

Refer to this post.