2298 replies to this topic

[GuardianGI]

For me, I just kept the bunkers to the south entrance alive so that I can garrison that later, assisted by some mirage tanks to kill the plague splatterers.

Edited by GuardianGI, 19 July 2017 - 02:32 PM.

[Flandre]

Well, tried Relentless on Easy. It is relentless, the enemy is. First try I lost at the defense part at the start (didn't notice that I could chronoshift units in). Then second time I just survived enough to get the MCV, but the Weather Controller got destroyed a second later. And then the rest was a hour of slow death as I try to somehow defend myself futilely until I run out of money and my base gets One With Yuri'd to the ground. I was trying to migrate into the ally base, but alas couldn't. Wish I could unpack my conyard to chronoshift it there to the ally base. At the end, I just noticed that I ran out of time of the day, so just quit (which is still the largest problem of the mod due to lack of saves/short missions).

 

In general, the mission felt tiring and suffers from the same "can't catch a breath due to constant attacks" like Firewalking in 3.3.0. Also barely any space to move, the whole map is an enemy base.

 

While the devs and "some" people are consisting something to motivate us. In the end, the whole mission is as fking hard to a point "no chill".

 

The good old problem of no save-load is still a pain to the neck.

[UNSC THE CHILL OF WAR]

This may mave been mentioned but in obsidian sands, is malver supposed to appear and be invincible. He killed both rahn and lybra.

[IconOfEvi]

Long one coming, so bear with me, 

 

 

Could someone make please a political map of MO at the start of Act 1 and the start of Act 2 to fully clarify things who is on whose side?

 

For example this is vanilla RA2's political map taken from the wikia: 

 

Not sure if this is the official map, but C&C wikia uses it. As we can see, pretty much an entire Eastern Europe is with Soviets in vanilla RA2. So are Mexico, Libya, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. However, vanilla RA2 certainly lacks plot explanations. Why Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia are with Soviets if Vietnam War probably didn't happen in RA? Why the hell China is with allies? It would make sense if nationalists won the civil war, so this is Republic of China, not PRC. Now look at Korean Penisulla. North Korea is with allies?! Wtf? It doesn't make sense at all unless this map is unofficial.

 

I would love to see a MO political map which will show where Scorpion Cell rules and which countries are with Allies/Soviets during WW3.

 

I suppose you lot are in luck, I've been tinkering a bit with a map for MO, since I see and hear the problems that have been evident for a long time.

 

Though one should also address the point that even though Westwood had a sort of lore of how their world unfolded, a lot of details were sometimes overlooked. It would take a lot of explanation, but basically what Westwood seemed to have done for the RA2 manual is transpose events and trends from our world (Arab socialism, the SEAsia wars) while forgetting this is an alternate universe. Sometimes they didn't screw this up, but a lot they did. A blatant example is Europe's borders. But it is understandable, in that there weren't the resources we have now, back when the game was made. It would be a lot easier to get a map of the world as is now.

 

In Act I, Scorpion Cell doesn't "rule" anything. They have lots of influence, but they are still a hidden group, criminal group, terrorist group. 

 

I intend to do one before MO starts, one at Act I start, and one at Act II start.

 

 

 

 

Then I don't understand. We know that all World Socialist Alliance member contributed to the invasion of America but North Korea was never mentioned. Not even as a neutral nation.

South Korea attacked Vladivostok while also sending a huge fleet to aid America in the pacific, yet nobody knew or did anything against them. It's already WW3 and North Korea didn't do anything while theirs enemy are fighting everyone else is just strange.

Or maybe, it got annexed by China before the war happened?

It couldn't be annexed by China because skirmish map still shows North Korea having it's own borders. As for China itself, we don't know what was it's fate in RA universe. In RA1 Soviets attacked it and the map above shows it being colored blue. Wikia also says that China during WW3 fought against Vietnam, which is pro-Soviet. We don't know what happened during Chinese Civil War in RA (in real life Stalin and Mao Zedong were good friends while Sino-Soviet Split happened due to an argument between Khruschev and Mao over Stalin) and if RA2 China is ROC or PRC.

 

 

* Not all WSA members contributed to the invasion, it would have been logistically impossible anyways. If I remember the manual, the Soviets intervened in a civil war in Mexico some years prior (also why they have prism research facilities out there). 

 

* Bear in mind, it seems that originally, South Korea was supposed to be Japan. No idea why it was changed.

 

* Another thing to bear in mind, in RA1, China indeed was the Republic of China. 

 

* It's forgotten in RA1, but the game takes place not in 1940s, but later, in the 50s/60s. But while the rise of Nazi Germany, and the war with the USSR didn't happen, the Pacific War DID still happen. America triumphed over Japan still. It's all a bit murky though - Korea would have been released from the Japanese Empire as united in such a victory, since there were no Soviets to enter the war, but at the same time, I'm quite sure the RA1 manual had one of the Soviet Union's main command posts in Pyongyang. Though it's been a while, so might not be so.

 

Lets just say we're not going with RA2's maps and such for MO, and I'm going to try to fix that.

 

 

It is a good example of how Westwood screwed up with the world map. I bet half of their coloring was made without any particular reason.

 

More or less correct. That and resources my dear.

[JemCel03]

Kinda feel bad for the Chinese campaign of USSR.

The treaty of Singapore is just useless because USSR destroyed China's key cybernetic facilities that would give them an edge to combat Yuri's vile mind control tactics. Oh and quite surprising that Topol-M the People's Liberation Army (Chinese Army) acquired on USSR actually did survived. What a plot twist. Also, that Yunru? It may be a cybernetic replica.

[Wayward Winds]

The Russians didn't even try to follow the treaty, it's still just power jostling in ComIntern.  It's all very well being concerned about who's going to be top of the heap when Epsilon's defeated, but hello, shouldn't you actually make progress towards defeating Yuri before worrying about that?  It's no wonder Epsilon's probably going to win this war, the Russians are still doing half his work for him!  The Allies are reduced to near nothing, yet they're still managing far more than the Soviets who theoretically still have a good amount of resources left.

 

As for Yunru, I don't think she's dead.  That Centurion just vanishes after the opening scene, so I think it was just displayed prominently as an oversized piece of bait to draw the Soviets and Epsilon in, and she was always planning to use that Midas.  The base was just sacrificial by that point.  Now everyone chasing her technology believes her dead (conveniently including the Chinese military who, if those stories about them holding her family hostage are true, she's not exactly fond of), and that those fancy new bits of tech are lost in the new blast crater.  The Centurion meanwhile could have just walked out the theoretical back exit, or... Siegfried's been rather quiet lately, and he's frequently thought to have something to do with Foehn.  Perhaps they're in collusion with each other and he quietly chronoshifted the Centurion out with Yunru still on board.

Maybe I'm just being optimistic, but still, the Centurion's complete absence during gameplay is fishy as anything.  The Russians haven't actually seen proof of its destruction.

[Hardric62]

The Russians didn't even try to follow the treaty, it's still just power jostling in ComIntern.  It's all very well being concerned about who's going to be top of the heap when Epsilon's defeated, but hello, shouldn't you actually make progress towards defeating Yuri before worrying about that?  It's no wonder Epsilon's probably going to win this war, the Russians are still doing half his work for him!  The Allies are reduced to near nothing, yet they're still managing far more than the Soviets who theoretically still have a good amount of resources left.

 

As for Yunru, I don't think she's dead.  That Centurion just vanishes after the opening scene, so I think it was just displayed prominently as an oversized piece of bait to draw the Soviets and Epsilon in, and she was always planning to use that Midas.  The base was just sacrificial by that point.  Now everyone chasing her technology believes her dead (conveniently including the Chinese military who, if those stories about them holding her family hostage are true, she's not exactly fond of), and that those fancy new bits of tech are lost in the new blast crater.  The Centurion meanwhile could have just walked out the theoretical back exit, or... Siegfried's been rather quiet lately, and he's frequently thought to have something to do with Foehn.  Perhaps they're in collusion with each other and he quietly chronoshifted the Centurion out with Yunru still on board.

Maybe I'm just being optimistic, but still, the Centurion's complete absence during gameplay is fishy as anything.  The Russians haven't actually seen proof of its destruction.

 

That, and we don't see that much Foehn tech around. Gharials and Mastodons prototypes aren't fought on missions, and they would be useful on these maps. It looks like more the forces during these missions sacrifice themselves to let the juiciest pieces of tech be hidden to be used when they're really needed. The Lancer protoype is the only one killed onscreen, and creating other ones isn't probably that hard.

 

Little pet theory. Mastodons prototypes are already packing nanotech inside, and their size was originally thought for accomodating the first nanotech systems. And when they became small enough to be used on Bisons, they could put the railguns instead.

[DrZiztah]

The Russians didn't even try to follow the treaty, it's still just power jostling in ComIntern.  It's all very well being concerned about who's going to be top of the heap when Epsilon's defeated, but hello, shouldn't you actually make progress towards defeating Yuri before worrying about that?  It's no wonder Epsilon's probably going to win this war, the Russians are still doing half his work for him!  The Allies are reduced to near nothing, yet they're still managing far more than the Soviets who theoretically still have a good amount of resources left.

 

As for Yunru, I don't think she's dead.  That Centurion just vanishes after the opening scene, so I think it was just displayed prominently as an oversized piece of bait to draw the Soviets and Epsilon in, and she was always planning to use that Midas.  The base was just sacrificial by that point.  Now everyone chasing her technology believes her dead (conveniently including the Chinese military who, if those stories about them holding her family hostage are true, she's not exactly fond of), and that those fancy new bits of tech are lost in the new blast crater.  The Centurion meanwhile could have just walked out the theoretical back exit, or... Siegfried's been rather quiet lately, and he's frequently thought to have something to do with Foehn.  Perhaps they're in collusion with each other and he quietly chronoshifted the Centurion out with Yunru still on board.

Maybe I'm just being optimistic, but still, the Centurion's complete absence during gameplay is fishy as anything.  The Russians haven't actually seen proof of its destruction.

Well, to be fair, the Allies have precious little other options than relentlessly keep going. Soviets still have some resources and seem to have decided to also invest into long-term opportunities, even if it has turned out to be a terrible idea. Then again, I suppose after taking on the entire world in Act I (with Yuri's aid), and winning, it's kind of appropriate to see USSR failing at something without him.

 

There's a very conspicious tunnel in Yunru's base. It's not too far-fetched to think that she simply walked out with the Centurion and some proto-Foehn forces in tow, likely heading to the mission Nobody Home. Also, frankly speaking, I believe Siegfried won't have anything to do with Foehn. It's been built up to be mostly Yunru's thing, with Rashidi as a probable factor as well given recent developments.

[umbracatervae]

The Russians are going paranoid after they found out the Chinese using their top secret technology, but rather than focus on their common enemy the Russians use false flag operations to wreck Chinese either. It could be different if they also make a secret anticipation if the civil war happened again after Yuri has been defeated.

Soviet alliance is fragile. Well, Allies also do a pretty similar thing like when EA and PF leave American alone and "borrow" US technology, but then both EA and PF help the distressed Americans in Act 2.

About Siegfried's activity, i doubt that he is involved with Foehn and i doubt that Kanegawa is also involved. About Jackal Racer found in Think Different, maybe that thing is intended to be an Allied unit but then Chinese stole the blueprint after they overrun the facility.

[JemCel03]

Yunru will live. I can feel it. That girl is pretty smart enough not to be caught by both Confederation and Epsilon teams. That's why I always felt that it's just a cybernetic replica of herself that was created perfectly enough to deceive both parties during the insurrection. And I assume that Centurion was already been mass produced by this time. They're just hiding in Beijing or in their bases in Japan.

[Shelbythetriagularsquare]

What do you mean siegfried will have nothing to do with Foehn, He probably created half the things for them, I mean Yunru may have invented a weird looking robot with 3 legs, but Siegfried created a teleporting Starship enterprise, I doubt Yunru could build Foehn on her own.

Edited by Shelbythetriagularsquare, 23 July 2017 - 03:13 PM.

[DrZiztah]

What do you mean siegfried will have nothing to do with Foehn, He probably created half the things for them, I mean Yunru may have invented a weird looking robot with 3 legs, but Siegfried created a teleporting Starship enterprise, I doubt Yunru could build Foehn on her own.

Do you see any hint of Siegfried in Foehn's roster? Because I don't.

 

Let me explain. Almost all of Foehn's signature technology is already present in the act two missions in their base form. Robotics (the cyborgs), nanotech (see Heartwork), plasma tech (Mastodons), AI etc. The only noticably thing absent is the wind manipulation technology, but I'll get to that later. All of these have already been invented by Yunru, who's probably the founder of Foehn alluded to in the unit descriptions. If I remember correctly, the nanotech required someone else to be there for it.

 

And that, I believe, is Rashidi, if the current events are anything to go by.

 

In Obsidian Sands you run into several Chinese units and it's mentioned that Rashidi's links to the Chinese need to be looked at. This already hints at the link between these two. Now, to return back to the roster, as Yunru has already created nearly all the technologies needed for Foehn, there's little evidence to suggest the presence of another "innovator" if I may call them that. Rather, if anything, Yunru would require an experienced and skilled engineer to turn these technologies into functional designs that we see Foehn use. Hence, Rashidi, or mister "I-built-an-entire-arsenal-of-original-designs-from-a-single-MCV-and-a-box-of-scraps-in-a-cave-and-could-do-it-again-given-some-new-tech-to-work-with".

 

Now, also consider Siegfried's area of expertise: spatio-temporal manipulation. There's no evidence of any Foehn units using any kind of tech even resembling that, despite it being oviously a very useful area of technology to have on your side. And the crux of this issue comes down to Paradox Engine that you brought up as Siegfried's Magnum Opus.

 

The narrative demands that Paradox Engine fail in the hands of Allies. And Siegfried will likely go down with it. If Foehn had access to Siegfried's expertise, you know what they should do? They should rebuild that thing and some Chronospheres to boot. Stopping time is about as story-breaking power as it gets. As such it won't be available to Foehn. Perhaps the husk of the Engine will be turned into Coronia, who knows? But it probably won't be Siegfried doing that, as much as I'd hope to see more of him. I consider Siegfried to be perhaps the best-written OC character in the mod, after all. I'd love nothing more than to see him still fight on, but I doubt it will happen.

 

Now, to return to the earlier diversion in this post, I suspect the source for Foehn's wind manipulation technology is going to be the Pacific Front base in Virgin Islands. Both Paranoia and Hypothermia are about protecting the WCD there from enemies, so it has something of a disproportionate narrative importance now that the Allies can freely build the thing. Whether it's by seizing it, or having the guardians join the Revolt, I think Foehn will get their hands on the device there to work on and reverse-engineer.

[Hardric62]

 

What do you mean siegfried will have nothing to do with Foehn, He probably created half the things for them, I mean Yunru may have invented a weird looking robot with 3 legs, but Siegfried created a teleporting Starship enterprise, I doubt Yunru could build Foehn on her own.

Do you see any hint of Siegfried in Foehn's roster? Because I don't.

 

Let me explain. Almost all of Foehn's signature technology is already present in the act two missions in their base form. Robotics (the cyborgs), nanotech (see Heartwork), plasma tech (Mastodons), AI etc. The only noticably thing absent is the wind manipulation technology, but I'll get to that later. All of these have already been invented by Yunru, who's probably the founder of Foehn alluded to in the unit descriptions. If I remember correctly, the nanotech required someone else to be there for it.

 

And that, I believe, is Rashidi, if the current events are anything to go by.

 

In Obsidian Sands you run into several Chinese units and it's mentioned that Rashidi's links to the Chinese need to be looked at. This already hints at the link between these two. Now, to return back to the roster, as Yunru has already created nearly all the technologies needed for Foehn, there's little evidence to suggest the presence of another "innovator" if I may call them that. Rather, if anything, Yunru would require an experienced and skilled engineer to turn these technologies into functional designs that we see Foehn use. Hence, Rashidi, or mister "I-built-an-entire-arsenal-of-original-designs-from-a-single-MCV-and-a-box-of-scraps-in-a-cave-and-could-do-it-again-given-some-new-tech-to-work-with".

 

Now, also consider Siegfried's area of expertise: spatio-temporal manipulation. There's no evidence of any Foehn units using any kind of tech even resembling that, despite it being oviously a very useful area of technology to have on your side. And the crux of this issue comes down to Paradox Engine that you brought up as Siegfried's Magnum Opus.

 

The narrative demands that Paradox Engine fail in the hands of Allies. And Siegfried will likely go down with it. If Foehn had access to Siegfried's expertise, you know what they should do? They should rebuild that thing and some Chronospheres to boot. Stopping time is about as story-breaking power as it gets. As such it won't be available to Foehn. Perhaps the husk of the Engine will be turned into Coronia, who knows? But it probably won't be Siegfried doing that, as much as I'd hope to see more of him. I consider Siegfried to be perhaps the best-written OC character in the mod, after all. I'd love nothing more than to see him still fight on, but I doubt it will happen.

 

Now, to return to the earlier diversion in this post, I suspect the source for Foehn's wind manipulation technology is going to be the Pacific Front base in Virgin Islands. Both Paranoia and Hypothermia are about protecting the WCD there from enemies, so it has something of a disproportionate narrative importance now that the Allies can freely build the thing. Whether it's by seizing it, or having the guardians join the Revolt, I think Foehn will get their hands on the device there to work on and reverse-engineer.

 

 

Other little hint: the Mirage Tank, an European technology, and is specifically mentionned as lost in the Battle of Antartica. Siegfried would most likely be able to rebuild this tech, as the Head Scientist for the Euro Alliance. That don't suggest his chances are good.

[umbracatervae]

What do you mean siegfried will have nothing to do with Foehn, He probably created half the things for them, I mean Yunru may have invented a weird looking robot with 3 legs, but Siegfried created a teleporting Starship enterprise, I doubt Yunru could build Foehn on her own.

Like DrZiztah said, no evidence in story for now. Siegfried is not involved yet, maybe he'll join soon later on after Foehn become a thing.

[Shelbythetriagularsquare]

How dare you use Lord Siegfried's name in vain?!

 

Okay I get it, chances are he won't be involved, but I really hope he is.

[StolenTech]

so far the allies don't even know of foehn's existence, or at least it wasn't shown that they know of it, and they seem to be headed to Yuri's HQ in Antarctica.

[DrZiztah]

How dare you use Lord Siegfried's name in vain?!

 

Okay I get it, chances are he won't be involved, but I really hope he is.

I wouldn't get my hopes up.

 

Not for the lack of theory-crafting mind you. These explanations for his involvement in Foehn can range from:

- Actually plausible; Yuri discovers a weakness in Paradox Engine that makes space-time tech a really bad idea, or the fabric of reality becomes too ruptured from the constant use of space and time warping. See Chrono Storms in Red Alert 1. Thus Siegfried would focus on Wind Manipulation Tech, because he seems to have a grasp on the Weather Manipulation tech due to being one of the defenders in Rainmaker. Also an aesop on not messing with things beyond your control, which would also function as the Allies' own Hamartia.

- Maybe semi-plausible; Siegfried survives, but is contacted and rescued relatively late into Foehn's creation in a bid to gain access to more tech. Maybe a mission of that nature even?

- Not even semi-plausible: Siegfried suffers a concussion and loses much of his expertise prior to joining.

- Full-on anime: Eureka is actually Siegfried after being tortured by Yuri and repeatedly mind-switched to a fresh body to continue.

 

But really, I'm pretty sure he's going to kick the bucket in act two.

Edited by DrZiztah, 24 July 2017 - 09:13 AM.

[JemCel03]

There is a possibility

What do you mean siegfried will have nothing to do with Foehn, He probably created half the things for them, I mean Yunru may have invented a weird looking robot with 3 legs, but Siegfried created a teleporting Starship enterprise, I doubt Yunru could build Foehn on her own.

She can do it. Thread of Dread may be preceded with "Nobody Home" since the events also take place on Kashimir. Also, assuming that moments before the cataclysmic explosion of Topol-M, Yunru has already left the vicinity and made a distress transmission with the Generals and Proselytes battling. Unfortunately for her, Kashmir is already being populated by Psi-corps forces so she has to escape and tread very carefully along with other Chinese infantries.

Siegfried may not be a possibility of a Foehn personnel. I suspect it's another SteinsTech personnel that is as smart as Walter O'Brien.
Meanwhile, Rashidi may have survived on the palace works underground in partnership with Yunru to get more advanced pieces for trchnology, so that he can contribute further into assembling a resistance that would topple Yuri someday. Or, before meeting his demise; he was already working underground and unnoticed with Yunru after seeing the wrath of the Paradox Engine after the events of Godsend, Bottleneck, Hysteria, Stormbringer, Paranoia, and Relentless. And there are more things to discover (soon to be discover) by the Headquarters and PsiCorps top intel officers by the aftermath of Obsidian Sands.

Yunru is the most vital person in creating Foehn. I really feel it.

[Dawbra]

I think that Obsydian Sands should be assassinate mission, i expect something more hard and epic from this.
Right now we have only one way to reach the target as there is only one cliff entry and its quite spam to kill mission i use basilisk and ufo to do it.
It can be even done bu Libra solo if someone wants to spent that much time.
Or maybe we can choose and put psychic beacon instead to capture them again so we don't lose that much our units.
Still trator can be kill as a script event before missions ends.

Meme: You cant be mind controlled if you follower Yuri only proselytes have free will.

[JemCel03]

Obsidian Sands by nature is "shoot-to-kill and annihiliate survivors" mission.