2298 replies to this topic

[Sammy Stallion]

Because adepts can hijack them, I'm assuming?

Also, it seems like I can't build a palace in this mission; is that intentional? It would be weird if it is, since palaces are needed to build adepts.

Edited by Sammy Stallion, 09 June 2018 - 07:44 PM.

[Terminal Velocity]

Yeah, I also just noticed it. So you have to keep yours alive at all costs.

Edited by Terminal Velocity, 09 June 2018 - 08:09 PM.

[Sammy Stallion]

I still have not been given any solid advice on building a defense force that can handle things long enough to let me focus on the offense.  The attacks are too frequent, and that they are scripted rather than built gives them an unfair advantage since the base only has a small amount of ore within the choke points. 

 

This mission as a whole is just plain unfair.  Having an enemy that knows exactly how to get to you while you have to struggle to even discover where they are was a big part of why I often hated Red Alert 3's skirmishes, and it's something that RTS designers should work hard to avoid.  If you absolutely can't code it to give an enemy a human-like blindness, fine, but then don't add insult to injury by giving the enemy other unrealistic advantages like scripted reinforcements and a shitload of cliffs protecting the route to their base.  I don't doubt that there is a trick to beating this mission, but that so much of the challenge is just figuring out what the fuck that trick is, which wastes too much time.

 

Oh, and the timer.  That might be the worst bit, because it turns the whole thing into an even bigger time waster by prompting constant retries instead of letting you just keep chipping away.  Despite what the media may tell you, not all gamers are just bumming a room in their parents house so they can remain unemployed; in fact most probably aren't.  Many, such as myself, have jobs and lives outside of gaming, which means that we don't really like it when time we spend on a game has no necessary pay-off.  I flat-out won't play any games anymore with game overs that erase all progress or no save feature, and while this mod now fortunately includes a save feature, when there's this much trial and error involved in a mission, that issue of wasted time is still constant.

[PACER]

I think I've made it clear enough. Enemy's offensive consists of mostly regular reinforcements coming from the northwest. What you need is to spam Wolfhound choppers (30 at least) and put them at chokepoints around your base. You'll also have to maintain a mobile reserve in order to shoot down Kirovs and rogue Wolfhounds.

 

What I can assure you is that RTS campaigns are never fair. From early Dune to latest Starcraft 2 LotV, the enemy ALWAYS holds advantage over you, be it economic or strategic. An ironic counter-example is CNC4 (which IMO can hardly be called a RTS), where you sometimes got equal resources. And this time the AI is so imcompetent that you don't even need a keyboard to beat it.

 

Talking about the timer, if you do find it disturbing, maybe RTS is not the best game type for you. Some 15-minute-game such as World of Warships as a Carrier suits you better. (and even better as a p2w game given that you got a job )

Edited by PACER, 10 June 2018 - 05:28 AM.

[Flandre]

those new teasers... I'm interested on how it will be.

 

Also:

Spoiler

 

I wonder.

[PACER]

those new teasers... I'm interested on how it will be.

 

Also:

Spoiler

 

I wonder.

 

Failed to notice anything out of ordinary :O

Edited by PACER, 11 June 2018 - 01:37 PM.

[BotRot]

I bet it's 3.3.4 to brighten up the spirits, heard it here first boys

[Flandre]

I bet it's 3.3.4 to brighten up the spirits, heard it here first boys

 

I'm curious how it will be.

[Hardric62]

those new teasers... I'm interested on how it will be.

 

Also:

Spoiler

 

I wonder.

 

 

We so need this after... that happened.

 

They can't control us!

[Sammy Stallion]

I think I've made it clear enough. Enemy's offensive consists of mostly regular reinforcements coming from the northwest. What you need is to spam Wolfhound choppers (30 at least) and put them at chokepoints around your base. You'll also have to maintain a mobile reserve in order to shoot down Kirovs and rogue Wolfhounds.

 

What I can assure you is that RTS campaigns are never fair. From early Dune to latest Starcraft 2 LotV, the enemy ALWAYS holds advantage over you, be it economic or strategic. An ironic counter-example is CNC4 (which IMO can hardly be called a RTS), where you sometimes got equal resources. And this time the AI is so imcompetent that you don't even need a keyboard to beat it.

 

Talking about the timer, if you do find it disturbing, maybe RTS is not the best game type for you. Some 15-minute-game such as World of Warships as a Carrier suits you better. (and even better as a p2w game given that you got a job )

1) I tried making 30 Wolfhounds and ran out of money.  Of course, I earned more, but I had to cancel the order--I rest my case that there isn't enough ore within the choke points.  Granted, maybe this would have gone better if I had ordered my miners to go for the field to the south, since it seems the enemy doesn't attack that one much, but that's one of those cases where it's just irritating to learn such things from experience.  Also, I wasn't able to stop the main Russian army with my adepts.  Maybe if I had been able to afford more, I would have, but I'm guessing not, since they also target my adepts with scuds to free their units.

 

2) I vehemently disagree.  A better way to describe RTS campaign balance is rarely symmetrical.  The players and NPCs often get unique perks.  A common one is the players getting a hero unit while the NPCs get more.  Within this mod alone, there are explosives placed liberally around enemy placements in far too many places to make the generalization that they always hold the advantage.  But here, they hold too many advantages.  I have possibly gotten farther, but in this case that might just mean "Focused too much on defending my base, so I ran out of time to assault and the Russian army came and destroyed me".

 

3) I find that insulting.  I don't care if you mark it as a joke with an emoji, it's not funny.  In fact, after The Emoji Movie, I'm not sure anything involving Emojis can ever be funny again.  Pay-to-win is an insult to gaming and talent, those games using it are an insult to RTSs, but that doesn't mean I have to go mollycoddle the hardcore gamers who brag about how good they are at something that doesn't really matter, either.  There's a middle ground, and if you can't see it, you aren't in any position to mock those of us who can.

 

As for whether RTS is my genre, well, that's really irrelevant.  There are good and bad ways to do each genre.  For example, I'm a much bigger fan of the old Mario games than I am of the old Sonic games, because I don't think the Sonic games have enough variety to justify the amount of time one needs to invest in beating them--that, and most lack a save feature and have permanent game overs.  Lack of a save feature and permanent game overs are deal-breakers for me these days.  I don't mind spending hours in a game, but I want to be damn sure the hours matter and aren't just something that get wasted when I lose.  With regards to RTS, well, there's always been a lot I like about the games, but something I have always disliked is searching for things.  For example, I've never been a fan of missions that require me to search the whole map to kill every last enemy unit; merely neutralizing the enemy should be enough.

 

The ambiguity of the enemy terrain in this mission is one of the big turn-offs.  One of the major reasons I consider the mission a waste of time is all of those cliffs mean I need to spend a lot of time simply searching for where I enter a base, and because there's also a time limit before the big guys arrive--and I haven't been able to beat them--that prompts me to reload once I do discover.  I actually cannot recall any time I liked mazes in any video game of any genre.  At best I tolerated them.  A time limit makes that worse.

Edited by Sammy Stallion, 12 June 2018 - 03:14 AM.

[PACER]

 

I think I've made it clear enough. Enemy's offensive consists of mostly regular reinforcements coming from the northwest. What you need is to spam Wolfhound choppers (30 at least) and put them at chokepoints around your base. You'll also have to maintain a mobile reserve in order to shoot down Kirovs and rogue Wolfhounds.

 

What I can assure you is that RTS campaigns are never fair. From early Dune to latest Starcraft 2 LotV, the enemy ALWAYS holds advantage over you, be it economic or strategic. An ironic counter-example is CNC4 (which IMO can hardly be called a RTS), where you sometimes got equal resources. And this time the AI is so imcompetent that you don't even need a keyboard to beat it.

 

Talking about the timer, if you do find it disturbing, maybe RTS is not the best game type for you. Some 15-minute-game such as World of Warships as a Carrier suits you better. (and even better as a p2w game given that you got a job )

1) I tried making 30 Wolfhounds and ran out of money.  Of course, I earned more, but I had to cancel the order--I rest my case that there isn't enough ore within the choke points.  Granted, maybe this would have gone better if I had ordered my miners to go for the field to the south, since it seems the enemy doesn't attack that one much, but that's one of those cases where it's just irritating to learn such things from experience.  Also, I wasn't able to stop the main Russian army with my adepts.  Maybe if I had been able to afford more, I would have, but I'm guessing not, since they also target my adepts with scuds to free their units.

 

2) I vehemently disagree.  A better way to describe RTS campaign balance is rarely symmetrical.  The players and NPCs often get unique perks.  A common one is the players getting a hero unit while the NPCs get more.  Within this mod alone, there are explosives placed liberally around enemy placements in far too many places to make the generalization that they always hold the advantage.  But here, they hold too many advantages.  I have possibly gotten farther, but in this case that might just mean "Focused too much on defending my base, so I ran out of time to assault and the Russian army came and destroyed me".

 

3) I find that insulting.  I don't care if you mark it as a joke with an emoji, it's not funny.  In fact, after The Emoji Movie, I'm not sure anything involving Emojis can ever be funny again.  Pay-to-win is an insult to gaming and talent, those games using it are an insult to RTSs, but that doesn't mean I have to go mollycoddle the hardcore gamers who brag about how good they are at something that doesn't really matter, either.  There's a middle ground, and if you can't see it, you aren't in any position to mock those of us who can.

 

As for whether RTS is my genre, well, that's really irrelevant.  There are good and bad ways to do each genre.  For example, I'm a much bigger fan of the old Mario games than I am of the old Sonic games, because I don't think the Sonic games have enough variety to justify the amount of time one needs to invest in beating them--that, and most lack a save feature and have permanent game overs.  Lack of a save feature and permanent game overs are deal-breakers for me these days.  I don't mind spending hours in a game, but I want to be damn sure the hours matter and aren't just something that get wasted when I lose.  With regards to RTS, well, there's always been a lot I like about the games, but something I have always disliked is searching for things.  For example, I've never been a fan of missions that require me to search the whole map to kill every last enemy unit; merely neutralizing the enemy should be enough.

 

The ambiguity of the enemy terrain in this mission is one of the big turn-offs.  One of the major reasons I consider the mission a waste of time is all of those cliffs mean I need to spend a lot of time simply searching for where I enter a base, and because there's also a time limit before the big guys arrive--and I haven't been able to beat them--that prompts me to reload once I do discover.  I actually cannot recall any time I liked mazes in any video game of any genre.  At best I tolerated them.  A time limit makes that worse.

 

 

1) It's more than possible to finish the entire mission before the army arrives. 30 Wolves costs $60000, which is not that unaffordable if managed correctly. Deploying your MCV outside the northwestern chokepoint for 2 Oil Derricks and gem ores.

 

2) That kinda makes sense on Starcraft 2 and Halo etc. However in the times of SC1, AoE2, and throughout the entire CNC series, the theory simply won't apply. The commander often need to face superior numbers without such "unfair advantage". Don't demand too much from an ancient game engine and a non-profit dev team.

 

3) Hmmm... OK. Anyway, MO, or rather RTS as a whole, is not and never as beginner-friendly as Marios and Sonics. One will have to invest much time to master it. Given that MO missions are maze-like and kinda full of time limits, one may want to cheat a little bit to reveal the map and remove the time limit. All you need to do is to go to ModEnc and-... Suddenly recall that someone hates searching, sorry.

I'm in no position to judge if RTS is your genre, but in order to strike the balance between going hardcore and precioussssss time, I'd really like to suggest you to invest a little on p2w games for much less time investments and extra rarely symmetrical experience .

[Handepsilon]

I'm not exactly sure why you have trouble. You said that you played this on Easy right? In 3.3 I literally had so much money that I could waste it by basewalking through the chokepoints.

 

Proof :

 

I mean, that's not a lot of money I have there, but I got so much units from all the money. Plus all the gems still lying around.

 

Also, there are gems on the north with a few derricks. You can gather them for quite an economical boost

 

There's also the matter of saving as much units as possible as you enter in the beginning to conserve resources. I hope you weren't busting through the front door when you start.

[Sammy Stallion]

Thank you for the idea about where to deploy; sounds interesting and I will try it.

However, the P2W straw man joke wasn't funny the first time, give it a rest. If I'm getting a bit too critical of this mod for your liking, you should have asked me to be a bit nicer, rather than being mean yourself.

The truth is, I WANT TO like this mod. In general, I do. I do feel that the campaigns all over the place walk an awkward line between way too difficult as a result of being cryptic to way too easy as a result of those barrels, but it's all still fun enough to be worth it.

However, Epsilon's campaign in Act One has been far and away the lowlight of the mod so far, and it's really a shame, because adding a Yuri campaign has long been a desired feature. In addition to all of the other problems noted, it just uses Epsilon's units too sparingly, and when you get more they aren't usually Epsilon's units. I understand why from a lore perspective, but it doesn't make for the most fun experience.

Edited by Sammy Stallion, 12 June 2018 - 06:40 AM.

[BotRot]

If amphibious transports would be immune to EMP in 3.3.4, it would be a slight discrepancy to the first objective of Power Hunger (not counting the rest of Soviet navy).

[JOKER_G]

I'm wondering how could FR counter EP's mind control technology in game. EP deploy a lot of MC units in campaign, and are known to destroy entire battle group in seconds if player is not careful.

 

I and my friends usually deploy 4 methods against mind control: conscript spam, dog and drones, air force and EMP weapon. FR relies on small amount of elite force, and don't seems to have much anti-ground drones or EMP weapon. It almost seems that FR, especially Last Bastion in 3.3.4, would be hard-countered by PsiCorp in campaign. 

[Handepsilon]

Clairvoyants are practically 'man-EMP' with their stun gun. You can also take care of Masterminds with Railguneers or Sweepers, and also Adepts/Elites with Buzzards. Coronia's pretty much safe since their main bulk if T3 are on air while Haihead has Megalodon to take care of both. Diverbee might be necessary to deal with magnets.

I do agree that LB's loss of Stun fiber is a shame (many even would be alright if it just stuns either only infantries or vehicles). Fighting PsiCorps in general is also a pain as Foehn due to lolmagnets.

[PACER]

But what about the Droid attack on the Wookies the overlapped trashbin near the Epsilon base and unreachable crate in the water in Kill the Messenger?

[PACER]

Thank you for the idea about where to deploy; sounds interesting and I will try it.

However, the P2W straw man joke wasn't funny the first time, give it a rest. If I'm getting a bit too critical of this mod for your liking, you should have asked me to be a bit nicer, rather than being mean yourself.

The truth is, I WANT TO like this mod. In general, I do. I do feel that the campaigns all over the place walk an awkward line between way too difficult as a result of being cryptic to way too easy as a result of those barrels, but it's all still fun enough to be worth it.

However, Epsilon's campaign in Act One has been far and away the lowlight of the mod so far, and it's really a shame, because adding a Yuri campaign has long been a desired feature. In addition to all of the other problems noted, it just uses Epsilon's units too sparingly, and when you get more they aren't usually Epsilon's units. I understand why from a lore perspective, but it doesn't make for the most fun experience.

 

Epsilon missions in Act1 are mostly undercover operations. They describe how Yuri constructed his armies bit by bit while avoiding vigilant eyes. Tryign to keep lorewise conistency, the devs had to choose between tiny tactical missions with epsilon units and bigger ones with "borrowed" production capabilities. And they chose the second, making it more strategic-bound for the price of Epsilon-style unit and doctrine.

As a result, the story is not as consistent as other factions' and (for some of the missions) not beginner-friendly.

[mrvecz]

I dont like the Epsilon in act 1 either, while i do understand the lore reasons, it doesn't translate to the game that well. CnC isn't really made for precise unit micro like Starcraft, for this reason i find Epsilon campaign to be the worst out of the three. Boring microfest missions with instant failure states just littered throughout the missions, i celebrated the mission where i actually got a base and i could build tanks... even if that was playing with stolen American forces... it was a relief. Same later with the Chinese base. 

 

And i played the Epsilons campaign before save and load feature and aside from Shipwrecked i couldnt finish the other missions because it was just unfun and way too time consuming with the many trials and errors. 

Some missions like... Singularity is totally beyond me and i must bow before Meister for pulling it off on youtube on mental difficulty.

 

Things got better after save and load, i actually managed to finish the Act I except Singularity, wont bother with that.

[BotRot]

I have this gut feeling that Coronian aircraft in the Firestorm Challenge will be completely immune to Blasticade; otherwise, their air superiority will be ironically countered by the very defense that they own.

 

Speaking of Firestorm Challenge, since other Foehn subfaction-specific challenges (Madness and Ouroboros) feature more than 1 epic unit, will this challenge get the same treatment?