5129 replies to this topic

[Handepsilon]

It has Wall and Wood at no, so the chance of it hurting wall is unlikely

[John Carver]

Maybe walls get damaged because enemies (for example flak troopers) shoot it, trying to shoot the emitter. Recently i have spotted that even your units tend to break walls if they want to move. But thats not clearly important - maybe, thats not emitter damaging walls, but enemies trying to damage the emitter. Tanks are good example - they eat walls for breakfest.

[FixenFrøjte]

Maybe walls get damaged because enemies (for example flak troopers) shoot it, trying to shoot the emitter. Recently i have spotted that even your units tend to break walls if they want to move. But thats not clearly important - maybe, thats not emitter damaging walls, but enemies trying to damage the emitter. Tanks are good example - they eat walls for breakfest.

it might honestly have been anti armor infantry shooting the wall to get to the emitter in SOME situations, but every single time i wall off emitters during a defense, even if the walls and emitter are not being shot at, the walls in front of the emitter still ends up getting smashed. i might have to test this out again. and i agree, some tanks wants to destroy your own walls to get somewhere, and even shoot your own wall if said wall is between the tanks itself and an enemy. i suppose its the same problem as the typhoons attacking shores.

Edited by FixenFrøjte, 27 September 2017 - 08:03 AM.

[John Carver]

 

Maybe walls get damaged because enemies (for example flak troopers) shoot it, trying to shoot the emitter. Recently i have spotted that even your units tend to break walls if they want to move. But thats not clearly important - maybe, thats not emitter damaging walls, but enemies trying to damage the emitter. Tanks are good example - they eat walls for breakfest.

it might honestly have been anti armor infantry shooting the wall to get to the emitter in SOME situations, but every single time i wall off emitters during a defense, even if the walls and emitter are not being shot at, the walls in front of the emitter still ends up getting smashed. i might have to test this out again. and i agree, some tanks wants to destroy your own walls to get somewhere, and even shoot your own wall if said wall is between the tanks itself and an enemy. i suppose its the same problem as the typhoons attacking shores.

 

most likely. Because ive seen that doesnt do damage to the walls, and thats wierd to hear, I never noticed that.

[John Carver]

Also, it only me, or... Fin (HailHead) reminds me of Space Marine? I mean... really. I dont know the Warhammer, but ive seen some images.

[Bernadiroe]

 

• what good use do sonic emmiters have by being able to shoot through walls if they destroy them? they DO destroy walls, even your own right? if so, is this purely for being able to basepush with them countering walls, as an added bonus to just that? if i were to basepush, i wouldnt use sonic emmiters in favor of railgun towers.

 

I don't think there's a fix for sonic weapons destroying the walls atm.

Speeder confirmed when I asked him about the sonic weapons (Jackal, Sonic Emitter, Shadray) damaging any walls in its weapon path.

 

From the way he's saying it, I think it's not intentional, but no fix for it atm.

[FixenFrøjte]

Also, it only me, or... Fin (HailHead) reminds me of Space Marine? I mean... really. I dont know the Warhammer, but ive seen some images.

yes, indeed space marines. there can be no question. 

 

 

 

• what good use do sonic emmiters have by being able to shoot through walls if they destroy them? they DO destroy walls, even your own right? if so, is this purely for being able to basepush with them countering walls, as an added bonus to just that? if i were to basepush, i wouldnt use sonic emmiters in favor of railgun towers.

I don't think there's a fix for sonic weapons destroying the walls atm.

Speeder confirmed when I asked him about the sonic weapons (Jackal, Sonic Emitter, Shadray) damaging any walls in its weapon path.

 

From the way he's saying it, I think it's not intentional, but no fix for it atm.

 

aaaaand thank you.

[NorthFireZ]

About Nanoloom: So I think the MCV switch was a mistake. Currently, there's not much benefit from building the Nanofiber Loom over the other two buildings for any faction, even Last Bastion. The Cyber and Cloud.P gives way more usability in terms of support powers and units. The Raccon is insanely useful, and the  Spinnblade is desprately need. However the only benefit from building the Nanoloom first is to get a slightly faster nanosync and the huntress, which is good don't get me wrong, but I don't think there's not much any difference in a 4-minute sync than a 4:30 minute sync. Especially because of the 4:30 minute Sync being able to net more synced units and thus a stronger army. Even if a Foehn player builds a nanoloom first, he's not going to be able to sync before getting Tier three up. Which leads to the first point. Let players diversify their build orders by bringing the MCV back onto the Nanoloom (which kind of help too because it is tankier than the Cloud Piercer). There's just too much good stuff loaded into the Cloud Piercer and CyberKernel and the Nanoloom fall behind as a first tech building option. 

 

Edit: By the way, Stolen Tech is not as prevalent as a problem as before so we can afford to go back. Selling the Cloud Piercer only means trouble when they need to rebuild their tech buildings.  

Edited by NorthFireZ, 28 September 2017 - 03:15 AM.

[CLAlstar]

I dont think its going to happen. Only faction for which piercer was significant enough to not sell it after reaching T3 was Coronia for obvious reasons. In 3.3.1 i saw a lot of foehn players just selling it right away with "lol no stolen tech 4 u" while happily spamming jackals with clairvoyants and showing them into enemy base. Piercer now is mandatory to stay alive if you are willing to rebuild your structures. I dont want to return to "lolol no stolen tech for you again because i play haihead/bastion".
 

 

Spinnblade is desprately need.

And then i see players 17 minutes into the game with zero spinblades whatsoever.

 

 

Even if a Foehn player builds a nanoloom first, he's not going to be able to sync before getting Tier three up.

Which is not entirely true, because it all depends on map and playstyle. Not everyone is techrushing in this game, i can ensure you that. Yesterday i was stomped by nanofiber rush :x Not the first time gotta admit.

[Handepsilon]

he's not going to be able to sync before getting Tier three

Technically speaking, no. I usually used Nanofiber Loom first build order in Madness challenge to get Railguneers.

PS: Isn't it supposed to be Railgunner?

Edited by Handepsilon, 28 September 2017 - 08:21 AM.

[CLAlstar]

No, it's correct. At the beginning we were annoyign Speeder about that too

[Speeder]

It is absolutely Railguneers.

[Atomic_Noodles]

It's using the same spelling as Musketeers.

[TeslaCruiser]

North pls
That was one of the best changes introduced in 3.3.2
Also Loom first is a good option. Keep in mind foehn needs multiple refs to achieve a strong economy so tech rush isn't always the best option.

[lovalmidas]

*Speedeer 

 

[NorthFireZ]

Referring back to 3.3.1 doesn't apply to much to the current patch where the Stolen Tech and Clairvoyent spam problems have been more or less solved. Games just aren't determined by Stolen Tech anymore. Which leads back to my first point, there's just too much loaded into the Cloud Piercer and Cyberkernel. Those two buildings dwarf the Loom in terms of immediate usability. Nanofiber sync has a very long cooldown of 7:30, which translate to like four minutes in game, but it's still longer than the support weapon cool down. There's almost no point for Coronia or HaiHead to build the Loom first unless to do the cheesy Nanosynced infantry rush because it only gives them the Huntress, no rail gun towers, no grids , no scout powers or vultures or any of their Faction vehicles! How can the Loom ever hope to compete?!

Also, sadly minermites getting stuck in one ref is still a thing so I don't think having more than two refinery before tier three will help too much with the A.I bugging out :/

Edited by NorthFireZ, 28 September 2017 - 06:59 PM.

[StolenTech]

Referring back to 3.3.1 doesn't apply to much to the current patch where the Stolen Tech and Clairvoyent spam problems have been more or less solved. Games just aren't determined by Stolen Tech anymore. Which leads back to my first point, there's just too much loaded into the Cloud Piercer and Cyberkernel. Those two buildings dwarf the Loom in terms of immediate usability. Nanofiber sync has a very long cooldown of 7:30, which translate to like four minutes in game, but it's still longer than the support weapon cool down. There's almost no point for Coronia or HaiHead to build the Loom first unless to do the cheesy Nanosynced infantry rush because it only gives them the Huntress, no rail gun towers, no grids , no scout powers or vultures or any of their Faction vehicles! How can the Loom ever hope to compete?!

that could be a foehn play-style choice, not a bad way of engaging... nanosync infantry blobs are not to be messed with and maybe just maybe if you invest more into units and more refinaries than tech rushing all the time you'd see how good that turns out, besides if you get more eco you'll have an even bigger nanosynced infantry blob early-game which if you couple it with some MBT/jackal can be pretty devastating.

[NorthFireZ]

Right, so moving the MCV back to the Loom wil, encourage this style more because it grants the safety net of the MCV.

[TeslaCruiser]

You still need to protect your tech from infiltration.
Stolentech now comes at a reasonable cost but the reward still there. It is obviously not the same amount than 3.3.1 which was ridiculous.
MCV requirement was moved to piercer to avoid people from selling it as HH and LB. In 3.3.1 was like 'fuk no i sell dis shit nao' right after expansion. If the requirement gets moved back then people will sell the piercer as soon as they suspect spies are near or even before. The building is also a cheap one and easy to rebuild.
About the sync infantry, it is very important when you face competent players. And if you face an aggressive one you want them fast and in numbers. Not to mention how good are Deviatress against jets memes which are one of foehn's weak spots early.
The idea behind loom first can be to train enough infantry while you strengthen your economy via minermites and extra refineries. If you learn how minermites behave then you can come with good refinery placement and miners distribution to avoid them from getting stuck. It is totally doable it just requires a bit more planning than the usual 'build many miners until u rich'.

Edited by TeslaCruiser, 28 September 2017 - 08:21 PM.

[NorthFireZ]

This wasn't about Nano Sync being nessary or not. Foehn absolutely needs the Sync to compete mid to late game. Sync is awesome, but it does have that incredibly length cooldown. I'm not actually trying to denounce Nanoloom first here!!! I'm actually trying to get people to build the damn building by bringing the MCV back to it.
And I also know why the MCV change happened in 3.3.1 because I was there for it. But the thing is, Stolen Tech is just not that prevlient in games anymore, we've had so much problem every game in 3.3.1 because as soon as tier three hits, everyone and their grandmother were trying to infiltrate it.
However, with the inclusion of the MCV infiltration requirement, the Stolen Tech problem has largely been minigated because it becomes incredibly more time consuming and costly. Yes the reward is still there, but it doesn't completely dictate the meta anymore. (Still remembers some angry comments about blowing up labs instead of getting Stolen Tech from someone, I can't quite remember who.) So with the main reason the MCV was moved for almost gone, why can't we have the MCV back onto the Loom? To prevent people from selling their Cloud? Stolen Tech isn't going to play much into the factor anyways. The players who do sell their Cloud Piercer will be playing in a detriment too, and they'll have a harder time recovering their tech if their Nanoloom expansion or Cyberkernel expansion do get sniped.
See the main part to argue about isn't it Nano Sync is awesome or if Stolen Tech is important anymore. Both of those questions can answer themselves. The most important part to think about here is the Cloud Piercer and the CyberKernel just having way more loaded stuff than the Nanoloom, espically for Coronia and HaiHead. There is almost no reason to build the Nanoloom first because the Cloud Piercer adds so much more immediate benefit (Roadrunners running in the 90s) PLUS! It also owns the MCV.