5129 replies to this topic

[JackoDerp]

Spies already have Unique features.

Allied Spies are cheaper
Soviet Saboteurs explode on death (ok it does basically nothing but whatever)
Epsilon Infiltrators are their only designated bridge killers, and it suits their ambushy-style that they can do that.
Foehn have the uniqueness of Clairvoyants instead of a disguisable.

Forcing a faction into just shooting bridges to break them is really dumb because its expensive, obvious and time-consuming, when you can just have them do it at the click of a button, why do you think 3.3.3 added the ability for Clairvoyants to do this?
Also for Spy vision, scout powers exist. Only time this is relevant would be during Campaign (because that start part of Unshakable is rather annoying, no?)

[0Weber0]

Maybe tyrants should be immune to EMP, similar to speeder trikes, because once you take away their hit-and-run ability, they're not worth the investment.

Maybe It could be said that both speeder trikes and tyrants utilise a special bio-fuel which give them this EMP immunity. SC specialises in chemistry, after all.

 

Ideas for human spies:

- Allied spy: Can deploy a temporary invisible beacon which target-paints and disables stealth of nearby objects. The beacon displays a sort-of scanning animation which gives the player a general idea where it is, similar to synconauts. Price increased to $1000 (The gimmick of cheaper spies now belong to Foehn).

- Soviet spy: Can self destruct, upon deploy, which isn't advised due to their price - it's just there as a desperation tactic. Death explosions leave small-AoE radiation again. Price remains at $1000.

- Epsilon spy: Is invisible when still (Like a mirage tank but with illusion tech). Can no longer demolish bridges (Just force-fire the bridges). Price increased to $1500 (Remember that they can be cloned, transported via driller, and/or shadow-ringed).

- All spies: Can see 50% farther.

 

Discus.

 

That actually sound like an interesting idea (minus the extra sight range). As of right now, epsilon infiltrators are WAY too situational and gimmicky. I don't want to keep my 1000$ (500$ with clone vats) spy by the side of a bride camping to score a few kills when he could be, you know, actually infiltrating stuff.

[BlackAbsence]

Bridge demolish is such a silly thing in MO.

The amount of time it takes an ivan bomb to demolish a bridge is about the same time it takes a reasonably powerful force to demolish a bridge via force-fire.

I'm pretty sure it only takes a bit of AT infantry to get the job done, at an earlier part of the game (unless its flak boys, but then there's ivan)

 

But if there has to be bridge demolition infantry for everyone:

- Huntresses could "infect" the bridge with nano-bots that "dissolve" the bridges supports over time?

- A dune rider could place a bunch of grenades on the bridge via the bridge-repair-hut and detonate them all at once?

 

Edit: Speaking of huntresses, can we give them stealth detection? Foehn needs more early game mobile stealth detection, imo. The SODAR array is too micro intensive for my feeble mind lol

That or just make the SODAR array see stealth stuff when un-deployed but at a lesser range. There's still that intensive to deploy for the golden-rocket damage buff too.

Edited by BlackAbsence, 02 August 2018 - 10:14 PM.

[JackoDerp]

Bridge demolish is such a silly thing in MO.
The amount of time it takes an ivan bomb to demolish a bridge is about the same time it takes a reasonably powerful force to demolish a bridge via force-fire.
I'm pretty sure it only takes a bit of AT infantry to get the job done, at an earlier part of the game (unless its flak boys, but then there's ivan)

That's probably there to prevent complete campign behind instantly destructible bridges.
Also successful bridge destruction ambushes are hilarious

 

http://clips.twitch....RoughCatOhMyDog

Edited by JackoDerp, 02 August 2018 - 10:36 PM.

[Drezalnor]

Bridge demolish is such a silly thing in MO.
The amount of time it takes an ivan bomb to demolish a bridge is about the same time it takes a reasonably powerful force to demolish a bridge via force-fire.
I'm pretty sure it only takes a bit of AT infantry to get the job done, at an earlier part of the game (unless its flak boys, but then there's ivan)

But if there has to be bridge demolition infantry for everyone:
- Huntresses could "infect" the bridge with nano-bots that "dissolve" the bridges supports over time?
- A dune rider could place a bunch of grenades on the bridge via the bridge-repair-hut and detonate them all at once?

Edit: Speaking of huntresses, can we give them stealth detection? Foehn needs more early game mobile stealth detection, imo. The SODAR array is too micro intensive for my feeble mind lol
That or just make the SODAR array see stealth stuff when un-deployed but at a lesser range. There's still that intensive to deploy for the golden-rocket damage buff too.

Huntresses and Duneriders with the ability to destroy bridges?Hmmm....the Dunerider could be implemented like that,but the Huntress ins(I'm not sure).

Bridge destruction and stealth detection in one package?That's a bit too much.

PS-The reason why I was unsure for the Huntress is this-she can excel against infantry,and can capture vehicles and act as a combat healer of sorts.Adding bridge destruction and/or stealth detection to the mix....

Edited by Drezalnor, 03 August 2018 - 12:49 AM.

[BlackAbsence]

Infantry that can demolish bridges are ones that are usually associated with heavy explosive capabilities.

The dune rider, be his explosive capabilities much less than a seal, ivan, or bloatic, is the closest reasonable epsilon infantry that fits this criteria for the job.

One could argue that his explosive capabilities aren't enough to warrant such power... and I'd agree with you, but, at least, he's T2, themed around explosives, and not T3, like the other dudes.

And when they're like the other dudes, it's like balance, in a way?...

 

As for Foehn, I really have no idea because they have no infantry universally associated with heavy explosive capabilities (excluding the giants banes. It would also be weird for giantsbanes to have bridge demolition power)

Huntresses just seem like the closest thing to a bridge demolishing infantry, simply because they're similarly T2.

But if it were up to me, be it less efficient/ambushy, I'd just use 3-4 lancers and/or tanks for the job.

Edited by BlackAbsence, 03 August 2018 - 06:26 AM.

[Drezalnor]

Infantry that can demolish bridges are ones that are usually associated with heavy explosive capabilities.
The dune rider, be his explosive capabilities much less than a seal, ivan, or bloatic, is the closest reasonable epsilon infantry that fits this criteria for the job.
One could argue that his explosive capabilities aren't enough to warrant such power... and I'd agree with you, but, at least, he's T2, themed around explosives, and not T3, like the other dudes.
And when they're like the other dudes, it's like balance, in a way?...
 
As for Foehn, I really have no idea because they have no infantry universally associated with heavy explosive capabilities (excluding the giants banes. It would also be weird for giantsbanes to have bridge demolition power)
Huntresses just seem like the closest thing to a bridge demolishing infantry, simply because they're similarly T2.
But if it were up to me, be it less efficient/ambushy, I'd just use 3-4 lancers and/or tanks for the job.

Well,Epsilon does not need the Dunerider to be a bridgebreaker-the Infiltrator is great enough for that department.

As for Foehn,none of their infantry is in that sense,an all-out destroyer(Except Last Bastion's Giantsbane).So it is pointless to associate bridgebreaking with them.Besides,the Clairvoyant is good enough.

[Handepsilon]

Epsilon has Infiltrator and Foehn has Clairvoyant. Both can destroy bridges (infiltrator C4 is probably as fast as SEAL's too).

 

That's 2 spies and 2 explosive guys. SEAL also isn't exactly an explosive oriented aside from buildings anyways. He's more of a special covert anti-infantry.

 

As for spies changes, I dunno, they're pretty fine to me. Epsilon can already cloak and transport their spies as you said. Saboteur is probably a weak spy, which is fine I guess. Soviet isn't one for covert. Allied has the cheapo quicker build spies until Epsilon gets Cloning Vats out

 

As for Foehn stealth detection.... isn't that supposed to be their weakness?

Edited by Handepsilon, 03 August 2018 - 08:16 AM.

[Drezalnor]

Epsilon has Infiltrator and Foehn has Clairvoyant. Both can destroy bridges (infiltrator C4 is probably as fast as SEAL's too).
 
That's 2 spies and 2 explosive guys. SEAL also isn't exactly an explosive oriented aside from buildings anyways. He's more of a special covert anti-infantry.
 
As for spies changes, I dunno, they're pretty fine to me. Epsilon can already cloak and transport their spies as you said. Saboteur is probably a weak spy, which is fine I guess. Soviet isn't one for covert. Allied has the cheapo quicker build spies until Epsilon gets Cloning Vats out
 
As for Foehn stealth detection.... isn't that supposed to be their weakness?

Well,there's only so much you can do with SODAR Arrays.Foehn doesn't exactly have a reliable mobile stealth detector.

[BlackAbsence]

Spoiler

 

Epsilon has Infiltrator and Foehn has Clairvoyant. Both can destroy bridges (infiltrator C4 is probably as fast as SEAL's too).

Infiltrator C4 actually takes a long time, if I recall correctly. Nowhere in the change log nor the factions page does it say that clairvoyants can demolish bridges, currently.

SEAL also isn't exactly an explosive oriented aside from buildings anyways. He's more of a special covert anti-infantry.

That's all he needs, and let's not forget about his ability to plant C4 on naval units.

As for spies changes, I dunno, they're pretty fine to me. Epsilon can already cloak and transport their spies as you said. Saboteur is probably a weak spy, which is fine I guess. Soviet isn't one for covert. Allied has the cheapo quicker build spies until Epsilon gets Cloning Vats out

I don't think all spies are balanced at all because Epsilon has such better infiltration options which is why I tried to come up with a way to buff the other spies while nerfing the epsilon one (with price).

And the clairvoyant overshadows the allied spies gimmick of a cheaper spy, anyway.

As for Foehn stealth detection.... isn't that supposed to be their weakness?

it is? I dare you to play that one challenge mission, where everything's invisible, as Foehn.

Anyway, I'm not completely against spies blowing up bridges, I just think other infantry could be more suited for the job, especially at T2 for balance reasons.

Edited by BlackAbsence, 03 August 2018 - 07:14 PM.

[JackoDerp]

I dare you to play that one challenge mission, where everything's invisible, as Foehn.

Not again please.

Clairvoyants can destroy bridges, I've used them before.
Infiltrator & Clairvoyant C4 time on a bridge is more comparable to an Ivan, but they don't make an ominous ticking sound.

[BlackAbsence]

Most heroes/heroines are too over-powered. I know that's kinda their gimmick but sometimes it goes too far. Changes I'd like:

Spoiler

Siegfried:

- Reduce his speed.

- Reduce his range.

- Reduce his fire-rate and fire-power but increase the death-ball-vortex-thing duration - This allows forces to retreat slightly more safely.

- Make his death-ball-vortex-thing see-though so that you can still see and command your units within it... if they live.

- Make it so he reveals himself within gap-generator zones, if possible.

- Make medics heal him at 50% efficiency.

Uragan:

- Reduce his range - I've seen him out-range stationary AA defences before.

- Reduce his fire-rate and/or attack-power.

- Random idea: Have him provide a nano-coat regulation field around him.

Norio:

- Reduce his speed - The man's not a jet, people.

- Reduce his fire-rate and/or attack-power.

- Random idea: Gains a new speed-buff deploy that lasts for 8 seconds, but, afterwards, his speed is nerfed for 10 seconds - He can redeploy after 20 seconds.

Chitzkoi:

- Make it so he's damaged by 20% every time he leaves a vehicle that gets destroyed by anything other than himself, if possible - This gives intensive to force-fire the chitzkoi-infected unit.

Morales:

- Like you've done with the blizzard tank, take away the friendly-fire, please! - I've lost more quads to him than I care to admit.

All heroes/heroines:

- Increase build time.

The stinger and robo-tank are good for what they're intended for, but they do make lousy assault units so no one uses them often. Some additions as intensive to use them more often:

Spoiler

Stinger:

- Corrodes the armour of enemy units, making it 10% weaker for 10 seconds, similar to the plague-splatter.

Robo-tank:

- Faster fire-rate.

- Reduced fire-power.

- periodically target-paints its single target, but not initially, similar to the war-hawk.

Edited by BlackAbsence, 03 August 2018 - 11:14 PM.

[JackoDerp]

I would not be against a Stinger HP Buff, but they are fine as they are...just about.
Robot Tanks are genuine garbage though.

As for hero changes?

Siegfried - He just does too much damage, his Tankiness would be acceptable if he didnt do so much dmg as well.
Uragan - No. An Obvious and very slow-moving Hero, he has enough power for his drawbacks.
Norio - No. Hes actually one of the few heroes you can kill fairly easily.
Chitzkoi - Dunno how Chitzkoi works exactly, but something to slow his jumps between infantry units would be nice.
Morales - Without Friendly fire? Lol no, he's good enough as is. Learn to micro skrub.

Though the increased buildtime I can agree with.

Also why do Zorbs do half damage to heroes? It makes playing Coronia vs Tankier Heroes literally impossible (Looking at you Siegfried you arsewipe)

I also have video evidence of Chitzkoi just jumping through an entire army of about 15 Zorbfloaters without dying, its just ridiculous.

[Divine]

Morales:

- Like you've done with the blizzard tank, take away the friendly-fire, please! - I've lost more quads to him than I care to admit.

 

It's funny, tho. Like when I palyed against a cheating bastard soviet mental AI in infantry only mode. The AI built not one but three Morales' and they were among about one and a half dozen other infantry, quite a few of them crazy ivans, all in its base. Geneburst on the infanty blob, sent the brutes to attacks one of its barracks. Morales' shot, two of them killed each other, the third lived, they wiped out most of their own infantry, remaining crazy ivans put bombs on the brutes, the last surviving Morales shot again, bombed up brutes and the remaining ivans exploded. Ended up killing 2 Morales', a Tesla Reactor, and not one but two Barracks and God knows how many infantry with a single Geneburst...The last Morales was on red health because the ivans and brutes exploding all over around him, he got the risen inferno...

[Drezalnor]

I dare you to play that one challenge mission, where everything's invisible, as Foehn.

Not again please.Clairvoyants can destroy bridges, I've used them before.Infiltrator & Clairvoyant C4 time on a bridge is more comparable to an Ivan, but they don't make an ominous ticking sound.

Don't remind me of that accursed mission-I had to do a SODAR spam and set up Stun and Turmoil Grids to deal with that.

Most heroes/heroines are too over-powered. I know that's kinda their gimmick but sometimes it goes too far. Changes I'd like:

Spoiler

Siegfried:
- Reduce his speed.
- Reduce his range.
- Reduce his fire-rate and fire-power but increase the death-ball-vortex-thing duration - This allows forces to retreat slightly more safely.
- Make his death-ball-vortex-thing see-though so that you can still see and command your units within it... if they live.
- Make it so he reveals himself within gap-generator zones, if possible.
- Make medics heal him at 50% efficiency.
Uragan:
- Reduce his range - I've seen him out-range stationary AA defences before.
- Reduce his fire-rate and/or attack-power.
- Random idea: Have him provide a nano-coat regulation field around him.
Norio:
- Reduce his speed - The man's not a jet, people.
- Reduce his fire-rate and/or attack-power.
- Random idea: Gains a new speed-buff deploy that lasts for 8 seconds, but, afterwards, his speed is nerfed for 10 seconds - He can redeploy after 20 seconds.
Chitzkoi:
- Make it so he's damaged by 20% every time he leaves a vehicle that gets destroyed by anything other than himself, if possible - This gives intensive to force-fire the chitzkoi-infected unit.
Morales:
- Like you've done with the blizzard tank, take away the friendly-fire, please! - I've lost more quads to him than I care to admit.
All heroes/heroines:
- Increase build time.

The stinger and robo-tank are good for what they're intended for, but they do make lousy assault units so no one uses them often. Some additions as intensive to use them more often:

Spoiler

Stinger:
- Corrodes the armour of enemy units, making it 10% weaker for 10 seconds, similar to the plague-splatter.
Robo-tank:
- Faster fire-rate.
- Reduced fire-power.
- periodically target-paints its single target, but not initially, similar to the war-hawk.

I agree with the Siegfried debuffs,though I'm against nerfing Uragan.

Norio might be fast,but in my experience against Pacific Front,I've seen he isn't that tough.The debuffs are uncalled for.If anything,he needs buffs,just to increase the challenge factor.

I don't know about Chitzkoi,because as rarely as I play as Epsilon,I simply don't play as Russia.

The few times I played as the Latinos,I had a hard time with Morales' friendly fire-I am in commune with you.

However,don't increase training time for the heroes/heroines at any cost.

About the Stinger.....the idea isn't that bad,and I think,it is worth a try.

The Robot Tank is not garbage as JDerp says-he can't appreciate the fact that it's pretty much one of the few reliable counters the Allies have for Epsilon Adepts and PsiCorps Elites(Excluding PsiCorps Mastermind,of course).It deserves buffs however,not nerfs.

[JackoDerp]

The Robot Tank is not garbage as JDerp says-he can't appreciate the fact that it's pretty much one of the few reliable counters the Allies have for Epsilon Adepts and PsiCorps Elites(Excluding PsiCorps Mastermind,of course).It deserves buffs however,not nerfs.

lol
Short Range, low HP, sluggish movement (thanks, hover-type).
Good luck getting into Range.

Allies are a whole lot better off using their T3 to kill Adepts and Elites (Especially as in any large Quantity you'll be into lategame stage by then)
Riots/Abrams (USA) - Thors/Siegfried/Prisms/Snipers (EA) - Blizzards (PF) all do way better than Robot Tanks.

Heck even Rocketeers do better than Robot Tanks in this scenario.

[Drezalnor]

The Robot Tank is not garbage as JDerp says-he can't appreciate the fact that it's pretty much one of the few reliable counters the Allies have for Epsilon Adepts and PsiCorps Elites(Excluding PsiCorps Mastermind,of course).It deserves buffs however,not nerfs.

lolShort Range, low HP, sluggish movement (thanks, hover-type).Good luck getting into Range.Allies are a whole lot better off using their T3 to kill Adepts and Elites (Especially as in any large Quantity you'll be into lategame stage by then)Riots/Abrams (USA) - Thors/Siegfried/Prisms/Snipers (EA) - Blizzards (PF) all do way better than Robot Tanks.Heck even Rocketeers do better than Robot Tanks in this scenario.

Rofl
The joke's on you,JackoNoob.
Do you really think Riot Troopers are any good against Adepts or Elites?Or for that matter,Abrams Tanks?An Adept or Elite spam will have you pissing your pants and scratching your head bald.

Thors are brutal enough,but please-Siegfried?!His artillery type is too easy to avoid.Snipers I'll admit I forgot to mention,but once their Epsilon counterparts come in,well.....it's GG.

Blizzards are meh,but you seem to have forgotten Norio.

I normally use a few Robot Tanks coupled with a bunch of Cryocopters to deal with anything that can mind control-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Edited by Drezalnor, 04 August 2018 - 04:32 PM.

[Endless]

 

 

Rofl
The joke's on you,JackoNoob.
Do you really think Riot Troopers are any good against Adepts or Elites?Or for that matter,Abrams Tanks?An Adept or Elite spam will have you pissing your pants and scratching your head bald.

Thors are brutal enough,but please-Siegfried?!His artillery type is too easy to avoid.Snipers I'll admit I forgot to mention,but once their Epsilon counterparts come in,well.....it's GG.

Blizzards are meh,but you seem to have forgotten Norio.

I normally use a few Robot Tanks coupled with a bunch of Cryocopters to deal with anything that can mind control-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

You're a hilarious man you should start streaming lol

Are you sure you've played USA regarding the Riot Trooper's statement?
Just two-three flashbangs and a fairly well sized chunk of adepts and elites suddenly vanishes, doesn't matter if an adept actually manages to MC one of them considering they are quite tanky and can shrug off their own weapons fairly easily as such.

 

I also can't help but laugh out loud at the statement that Siegfried's shot is easy to avoid, which in an actual combat scenario it is not.

Edited by Endless, 04 August 2018 - 07:51 PM.

[BlackAbsence]

Spoiler

Do you really think Riot Troopers are any good against Adepts or Elites?

Are you daft? Of course, they are.

Thors are brutal enough,but please-Siegfried?!His artillery type is too easy to avoid.

The man's an artillery unit with massive AoE damage and you're saying he's 'Easy to avoid'?...

Blizzards are meh,but you seem to have forgotten Norio.

Blizzards aren't 'meh'; they're essentially super snipers! and Norio can get shot down with about 4 gatling tanks.

 

I've never seen statements less accurate before - This has to be a joke - Right? :/

[Drezalnor]

Rofl
The joke's on you,JackoNoob.
Do you really think Riot Troopers are any good against Adepts or Elites?Or for that matter,Abrams Tanks?An Adept or Elite spam will have you pissing your pants and scratching your head bald.

Thors are brutal enough,but please-Siegfried?!His artillery type is too easy to avoid.Snipers I'll admit I forgot to mention,but once their Epsilon counterparts come in,well.....it's GG.

Blizzards are meh,but you seem to have forgotten Norio.

I normally use a few Robot Tanks coupled with a bunch of Cryocopters to deal with anything that can mind control-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

You're a hilarious man you should start streaming lol
Are you sure you've played USA regarding the Riot Trooper's statement?
Just two-three flashbangs and a fairly well sized chunk of adepts and elites suddenly vanishes, doesn't matter if an adept actually manages to MC one of them considering they are quite tanky and can shrug off their own weapons fairly easily as such.

I also can't help but laugh out loud at the statement that Siegfried's shot is easy to avoid, which in an actual combat scenario it is not.

Thanks but no thanks-streaming on YT?!I'll be half dead.
The US of A is my least favourite faction in the game and though,whenever I play Allies,I usually play as EA and sometimes as PF,Siegfried is my least favourite hero-I've never trained him until now(Except for the first few times I played as EA,which frustrated me to no end).

As for Riot Troopers...I never used them for fighting Psychics-I always wound up using a Robot Tank-Cryochopper combo for that purpose.

Spoiler

Do you really think Riot Troopers are any good against Adepts or Elites?

Are you daft? Of course, they are.

Thors are brutal enough,but please-Siegfried?!His artillery type is too easy to avoid.

The man's an artillery unit with massive AoE damage and you're saying he's 'Easy to avoid'?...

Blizzards are meh,but you seem to have forgotten Norio.

Blizzards aren't 'meh'; they're essentially super snipers! and Norio can get shot down with about 4 gatling tanks.

I've never seen statements less accurate before - This has to be a joke - Right? :/

Spoiler

I might not be accurate all the time(Actually,I'm off the mark only 3.5% of the time) but if you are looking for inaccurate statements,look up what Icewood said in page 10 of the thread "Patch 3.3.4 Proposed Changelog" and all of our replies to that.

As for Blizzard Tanks,I would not call them meh if they were more like the ECA Fenris Cryo Tanks in Rise of the Reds.

Edited by Drezalnor, 05 August 2018 - 06:20 AM.