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MO 3.3 // Feedback & Suggestions (Balance, New Features, Modifications etc.)


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#3721 GoodGame1324

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 04:52 PM

The mercenary idea sounds very interesting, but as others have pointed it out, you would go broke if they are the core of your army. 

 

The thing what makes mercenaries so interesting and unique is unlike most units, mercenaries become less valuable as they kill more and more. Usually, if you have a unit that kills things far beyond what costed it to make (lets say a single rhino tank somehow kills an nuwa cannon), you make a good trade as that is $900 vs $1800, not the mention that the rhino tank will get experience and become a veteran meaning increased combat potential. 

 

However, the same thing does not apply to mercenaries. Although they are supposed to be extremely powerful for their cost, they cost additional money for each unit they kill. So lets say you have a mercenary tank that is the exact same strength as the rhino tank, but much cheaper (as it is a mercenary). Lets say that mercenary tank costs an initial $300 (being very generous), and you pay 20% of the cost of the unit that the tank kills. So if that mercenary tank kills a nuwa, the trade, instead of being $300 vs $1800, it becomes $560 vs $1800, as you need to pay an additional $360 because its a mercenary. If that same tank kills another nuwa, it becomes a trade of $920 vs $1800.

 

So unlike regular units, which give you better value the more enemies it kills, mercenary units are the opposite: the more units the mercenary kills, the less value you get. 

With this in mind, I would definitely not use mercenary units for things like sneak attacks. Their good cost to effectiveness ratio would be hindered the more units they kill, so I would honestly think mercenaries would make excellent cannon fodder rather than actual combat units. 

 

 

 Also, we also needs to address what would happen if you are at 0 cash. What happens when you no longer can afford to support the mercenary?



#3722 JackoDerp

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 05:04 PM

Damfoos has already explained that this is impossible
No point.

Everyone seems to be arguing over how Yunru came into such a position of power,

yet nobody is willing to explain how Rahn's weapon is able to teleport a pair of shorts.

 

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#3723 Divine

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 06:02 PM

Damfoos has already explained that this is impossible
No point.

Yeah right, I falsely remembered that Ares allows setting bounty gains for individual units. Maybe someday. The entire idea about mercs was that they would give short term adventage but become a liability after a while. The player would have to make a decision to invest in mercs for a quick power boost, or spend the money on regular units that have less power for the initial cost but are cheaper on the long run. Investing in mercs would be ideal for a player who is losing, provided that the player in question is capable of capturing and holding the Mercenary Outpost. Mercs should be used boldly, but their initial fee should be high enough to discourage mindlessly sending them in the gridner as cannon fodder.

 

As for the case of reaching 0$, I see only two logical outcomes, one is going into negative money, the other is all mercs in the player's possession becoming neutral. It would be interesting to see a horde of pissed off unpaid mercs shooting everyone else, but I don't think it would be the optimal solution, especially considering the AI's unwillingness to retaliate against neutral units attacking it.


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#3724 isaac103

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 01:20 AM

 

Damfoos has already explained that this is impossible
No point.

Yeah right, I falsely remembered that Ares allows setting bounty gains for individual units. Maybe someday. The entire idea about mercs was that they would give short term adventage but become a liability after a while. The player would have to make a decision to invest in mercs for a quick power boost, or spend the money on regular units that have less power for the initial cost but are cheaper on the long run. Investing in mercs would be ideal for a player who is losing, provided that the player in question is capable of capturing and holding the Mercenary Outpost. Mercs should be used boldly, but their initial fee should be high enough to discourage mindlessly sending them in the gridner as cannon fodder.

 

As for the case of reaching 0$, I see only two logical outcomes, one is going into negative money, the other is all mercs in the player's possession becoming neutral. It would be interesting to see a horde of pissed off unpaid mercs shooting everyone else, but I don't think it would be the optimal solution, especially considering the AI's unwillingness to retaliate against neutral units attacking it.

 

Are we thinking about using the Mercenary system similar to the Merc system in Act of War: High Treason?



#3725 Nicholas Chau

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 05:40 AM

is it possible to give the mod the capability to place power plants and airfields on water like in ra3? or is it impossible for ares?


Edited by Nicholas Chau, 20 August 2018 - 05:41 AM.


#3726 Handepsilon

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 08:49 AM

Impossible


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#3727 mrvecz

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 11:54 AM

 

Damfoos has already explained that this is impossible
No point.

 

especially considering the AI's unwillingness to retaliate against neutral units attacking it.

 

Its possible with ARES to undo that, to force both AI or Human soldiers to auto attack hostile neutral units if they get attacked by them.

 

 

http://ares-develope...ivilian-attacks


Edited by mrvecz, 20 August 2018 - 11:55 AM.


#3728 Solais

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 03:03 PM

Hmm, if it's possible to place Naval Yards and some naval defenses on water, what stops other buildings, like the aforementioned power plants and such? As in, I'm guessing, having a separate "Naval Power Plant" and such building.



#3729 Handepsilon

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 11:59 PM

Damfoos has already explained that this is impossible
No point.

especially considering the AI's unwillingness to retaliate against neutral units attacking it.
Its possible with ARES to undo that, to force both AI or Human soldiers to auto attack hostile neutral units if they get attacked by them.


http://ares-develope...ivilian-attacks
The rest of the mercenary mechanic IS impossible however. Ares never had such complex mechanic in mind as far as I know

Hmm, if it's possible to place Naval Yards and some naval defenses on water, what stops other buildings, like the aforementioned power plants and such? As in, I'm guessing, having a separate "Naval Power Plant" and such building.


It will clutter the building UI though. Plus MO isn't designed like RA3 where you can have an entire fight done in water. Foehn will absolutely dominate the fight in T1 because of their jackals.

Never mind the fact that engies aren't amphibious. Who would want to make the shp for their swimming animation? And that's not considering whether or not you can cap things on water without it glitching out.

Edited by Handepsilon, 21 August 2018 - 12:03 AM.

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#3730 CrimsonRaider

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 06:25 AM

And what if the mercenaries just constantly drain your money after you trained them (reversed oil derrick effect or invaders' drain capability)?
And also have hp loss instead of money loss upon killing an enemy.



#3731 Solais

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 07:48 AM


Hmm, if it's possible to place Naval Yards and some naval defenses on water, what stops other buildings, like the aforementioned power plants and such? As in, I'm guessing, having a separate "Naval Power Plant" and such building.


It will clutter the building UI though. Plus MO isn't designed like RA3 where you can have an entire fight done in water. Foehn will absolutely dominate the fight in T1 because of their jackals.

Never mind the fact that engies aren't amphibious. Who would want to make the shp for their swimming animation? And that's not considering whether or not you can cap things on water without it glitching out.

 

 

Well, Foehn wouldn't have that advantage if we got that naval expansion already. :V


Edited by Solais, 21 August 2018 - 07:48 AM.


#3732 Handepsilon

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 09:41 AM

The hell does that have to do with their ability to get jackal early on? :v

 

That's also not considering their Swordfishes btw


Edited by Handepsilon, 21 August 2018 - 09:41 AM.

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#3733 JackoDerp

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 10:18 AM

Jackals are garbage so I don't see your point at all.
Swordfish on the other hand...

Everyone seems to be arguing over how Yunru came into such a position of power,

yet nobody is willing to explain how Rahn's weapon is able to teleport a pair of shorts.

 

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#3734 BotRot

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 11:13 AM

Just a small discrepancy on some official website descriptions...

 

Ghost Miner and Chrono Miner descriptions mention that "Miners have played an essential role in warfare since the First Great War.", while in the War Miner's case, it is the "Second Great War".

 

Which one of these is the right one? I reckon it's the War Miner's description that's correct.


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#3735 mrvecz

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 02:06 PM

Can tech artillery receive a armour boost against Wallbuster (Or abilities like that) ? Since it gets instantly killed at full HP by it.



#3736 PACER

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 02:33 PM

Just a small discrepancy on some official website descriptions...

 

Ghost Miner and Chrono Miner descriptions mention that "Miners have played an essential role in warfare since the First Great War.", while in the War Miner's case, it is the "Second Great War".

 

Which one of these is the right one? I reckon it's the War Miner's description that's correct.

 

The latter. According to CNC history, the First Great War is the genuine WW1.


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#3737 BotRot

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 12:03 AM

Whenever "playing" as a Spectator in an A.I. vs. A.I.-only skirmish, the game wouldn't automatically end if one team is victorious. Any way to fix this?

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#3738 Speeder

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 07:40 AM

Not really, no.


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#3739 J00B

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 04:01 PM

How about for Skirmish the ability to choose different/custom soundtracks regardless of the faction chosen?

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Edited by J00B, 22 August 2018 - 04:03 PM.


#3740 Drezalnor

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 12:56 AM

How about for Skirmish the ability to choose different/custom soundtracks regardless of the faction chosen?
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Impossible.

Hmm, if it's possible to place Naval Yards and some naval defenses on water, what stops other buildings, like the aforementioned power plants and such? As in, I'm guessing, having a separate "Naval Power Plant" and such building.

Stop it.This mod is RA2 based-there's no way to implement RA3 style naval mechanics here.Even if you wanted to,it will become one big mess.
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