5129 replies to this topic

[JackoDerp]

I never even bothered to check if Irkalla can be repaired by Repair Rings.
Wolfhounds can.

[CrimsonRaider]

Can the risen inferno and tech expansion post repair aerial units, or just the crane? I never paid attention to those.
And the flying aerial-unit-only repair thingy would fit in WoC in my opinion.

Edited by CrimsonRaider, 24 January 2019 - 07:28 AM.

[Drezalnor]

Can the risen inferno and tech expansion post repair aerial units, or just the crane? I never paid attention to those.
And the flying aerial-unit-only repair thingy would fit in WoC in my opinion.

Not sure,will have to check on that.

As for that,the Aerial Support Vessel (ASV) could indeed help Coronia,but WoC would benefit more from a PAC style T3 monster.

[CrimsonRaider]

Since when does the dunerider drop 2 grenades when elite? Is it present from the beginning? Because I just noticed it

[Thesilver]

They did that to make elite ones more unique compared to normal ones as the explosion remains the same. It's always been like that i noticed it in 3.0. The individual grenades do less damage when elite so they don't get double dps on top of the standard veterancy change but its still a substantial boost.

[BotRot]

if it is not mentioned before, I'd suggest that the small icons for Epsilon HQ and Scorpion Cell be updated in the official website once v3.3.5 drops. Apparently the website still uses the v3.0 icons if I'm not mistaken (current HQ icon has a small "HQ" text on the lower right, while the old one doesn't).

Edited by BotRot, 02 February 2019 - 04:17 AM.

[TerumasaReal]

Recently I've noticed that the Athena Cannons are hardly used by players, its function is even almost replaced by Abrams in 3.3.4 - the latter becomes a little IMBA now.

 

According to comparison, the problem is its ROF - 300, which is so terrible, if you doubt at this, see the comparison below:

 

(Order: Attack point, ROF)

 

Athena - 165/300

Prism - 100/110

Hailstorm - 30*4/150

Scud - 250/150

 

(EDIT: Well, I've made mistake here. Scud's reload time is 300 (＞150), same as current Athena, and its attack point is 265. Scud deserves such ROF owing to its attack point however, unlike Athena.)

 

Buratino - 45*8 (through no so effective against structures)/160

Centurion - 135/180

Magnetron - 170/110

Plague - 150/140

Shadray - 20+10 pass through per frame/120

Tarchia - 140/80 when charging, 50 when firing

 

So it is clear that Athena's ROF is ridiculously too long (20s in game), while its other parameters is not so different from other siege units. ROF should be adjusted heavily, and nerf Abrams a little (can revert change to status in v3.3.3 if possible).

Edited by TerumasaReal, 26 February 2019 - 09:58 AM.

[PACER]

Recently I've noticed that the Athena Cannons are hardly used by players, its function is even almost replaced by Abrams in 3.3.4 - the latter becomes a little IMBA now.

 

According to comparison, the problem is its ROF - 300, which is so terrible, if you doubt at this, see the comparison below:

 

(Order: Attack point, ROF)

 

Athena - 165/300

Prism - 100/110

Hailstorm - 30*4/150

Scud - 250/150

Buratino - 45*8 (through no so effective against structures)/160

Centurion - 135/180

 

So it is clear that Athena's ROF is ridiculously too long (20s in game), while its other parameters is not so different from other siege units. ROF should be adjusted heavily, and nerf Abrams a little (can revert change to status in v3.3.3 if possible).

 

Aye. Not to mention the scalars, which is inferior to other siege vehicles in almost every aspect.

[Thesilver]

abrams range should atleast be lowered a bit. I don't think they should outrange garrisonable structures with all the other benefits they have.

[JackoDerp]

Athena damage is actually really good, its just their range is a bit meh and they're kinda clunky to get into position.
They can also have nice utility against units and aren't revealed when firing from under Gap Generator.

They also technically get boosted by using Mercury but that almost never has an actual effect on anything.

Edited by JackoDerp, 06 February 2019 - 04:21 PM.

[Handepsilon]

They also technically get boosted by using Mercury but that almost never has an actual effect on anything.

Mainly because of how short-lived that boost is. You can never actually utilize that for more than a single shot, and that's if you time the strike enough for an athena cannon to get at least one shot through before the boost goes down.

[NorthFireZ]

Mercury is fine, the reason for their ROF is because they not only have really good Alpha damage, which can be supported by Mercury support power, but also AOE. They do decent damage and 4 shot almost every building. 

 

If you want to nerf anything, revert Abrams to 3.3.3 state because honestly, they didn't need a buff. 

 

PF's hailstorms thou feels really weak. Despite having a lot of range like the Scud missile their damage is really pitiful and I would like to see some changes based on that considering you'll need much more Hailstorms to do what Prisms and Athenas can do. 

 

Added with that can be a Cyro tank nerf to vehicles or a range nerf and some buffs to the tortise to make it viable again.  

[TerumasaReal]

Mercury is fine, the reason for their ROF is because they not only have really good Alpha damage, which can be supported by Mercury support power, but also AOE. They do decent damage and 4 shot almost every building. 

 

If you want to nerf anything, revert Abrams to 3.3.3 state because honestly, they didn't need a buff. 

 

PF's hailstorms thou feels really weak. Despite having a lot of range like the Scud missile their damage is really pitiful and I would like to see some changes based on that considering you'll need much more Hailstorms to do what Prisms and Athenas can do. 

 

Added with that can be a Cyro tank nerf to vehicles or a range nerf and some buffs to the tortise to make it viable again.  

Disagree. US is an offensive subfaction, but Athena is extremely inflexible, which is not suitable for US' guerilla tactic. Though the Mercury buff and AOE feature you've mentioned is the fact, the former can hardly be activated however, and the opprotunity to let Athenas get close to Mercury target is not so often to encounter. Even if its AOE is quite mighty, the ROF - 300 frames, which is 20 seconds, is still a ridiculous value, far exceeding the ROF of other siege vehicles.

 

As for Hailstorm, its main feature is attack range and AOE, as well as anti-infantry if necessary. It's designed to be unsuitable to attack defense structures, its damage is accumulated by the weapon effects within the scope, attacking a small defensive building will of course cause firepower waste. Not weak, just used wrong - for PF, attacking defense structure should be done by Siege Cadre + Tortoise.

Edited by TerumasaReal, 08 February 2019 - 04:15 AM.

[PACER]

US is more aligned to the "agility" subfaction in a stength-agility-intellect sytem, along with RU, PC and WC. These are not necessarily micro-intensive hit-and-run subfactions like SC or PF, but mobility is still a favored trait. The Athena is one of the few, if not the only US unit which is neither mobile not versatile. In its current state, the Athena is inferior to Prism in almost any aspect. The temporary Mercury buff is something unreliable for continuous siege warfare due to the support power's long cooldown.

 

IMO the Athena ought to serve as a nut-cracker unit specifically against fortifications that Abrams cannot get through, for example defenses on elevated terrains. In this case its poor mobility and RoF is no longer of critical importance. However it needs a significant damage buff, say 165/300 => 265/300. Additional armor buff is not as urgent since the Aeroblaze is amongst the best AA units.

[CLAlstar]

 

However it needs a significant damage buff, say 165/300 => 265/300.

There is no way this is happening. Athena's have huge impact damage to point, where couple of them can decimate buildings with ease. While in 1 on 1 tests Athena seems to be weaker than Prism, it gets better with numbers. 2 Athena/2 Prism are on par, while in 3 Athena/3 Prism it's the athenas who are on top.

 

If i had to make a change, it would be on Mercury - replace damage buff with RoF buff. That's all.

[PACER]

 

 

However it needs a significant damage buff, say 165/300 => 265/300.

There is no way this is happening. Athena's have huge impact damage to point, where couple of them can decimate buildings with ease. While in 1 on 1 tests Athena seems to be weaker than Prism, it gets better with numbers. 2 Athena/2 Prism are on par, while in 3 Athena/3 Prism it's the athenas who are on top.

 

If i had to make a change, it would be on Mercury - replace damage buff with RoF buff. That's all.

 

 

Athena's ROF is so terrible that it neglects its additional AoE damage (while Prism still prisms on units). It's true that Athena has better scalar against armored units than most siege units, but Abrams of the current patch is fully capable of handling that part.

[NorthFireZ]

 

Mercury is fine, the reason for their ROF is because they not only have really good Alpha damage, which can be supported by Mercury support power, but also AOE. They do decent damage and 4 shot almost every building. 

 

If you want to nerf anything, revert Abrams to 3.3.3 state because honestly, they didn't need a buff. 

 

PF's hailstorms thou feels really weak. Despite having a lot of range like the Scud missile their damage is really pitiful and I would like to see some changes based on that considering you'll need much more Hailstorms to do what Prisms and Athenas can do. 

 

Added with that can be a Cyro tank nerf to vehicles or a range nerf and some buffs to the tortise to make it viable again.  

Disagree. US is an offensive subfaction, but Athena is extremely inflexible, which is not suitable for US' guerilla tactic. Though the Mercury buff and AOE feature you've mentioned is the fact, the former can hardly be activated however, and the opprotunity to let Athenas get close to Mercury target is not so often to encounter. Even if its AOE is quite mighty, the ROF - 300 frames, which is 20 seconds, is still a ridiculous value, far exceeding the ROF of other siege vehicles.

 

As for Hailstorm, its main feature is attack range and AOE, as well as anti-infantry if necessary. It's designed to be unsuitable to attack defense structures, its damage is accumulated by the weapon effects within the scope, attacking a small defensive building will of course cause firepower waste. Not weak, just used wrong - for PF, attacking defense structure should be done by Siege Cadre + Tortoise.

 

US is an offensive sub faction. However, Athena is not inflexible. The mercury firepower buff is not scantly activated if there is an Athena near. It is only scantly observed because the Athena is rarely used in comparison to the Abrams. I believe your biggest gripe with the Athena is the ROF, however, in truth, the Athena has an observable DPS vs buildings better than the Hailstorm and has enough DPS vs buildings to match the Scud launcher. The opponent is not supposed to let any siege vehicles drive up to them but because of the Mercury's 14 range, yet most of the time they can't prevent it especially with main force support. 

 

Let's say in a perfect scenario where an Athena can hit as many units as its aoe allowed, it would have the most damage per shot. Its trade-off is firerate which sacrifices accuracy and effectiveness vs a mobile army. Even in a less than ideal situation, it has a lot of potential as a mob control unit as well as a siege unit as it does a lot of damage to defenses and only takes 4 shots to kill most buildings. 

 

I've proven in my USA guide that when comparing the dps vs a wf for all three of the Allied Siege vehicles, Athena scored second, and Hailstorm scored last. The Athena wasn't even that far behind from a prism and can do the job even faster if I tested 4 at a time. 

 

I'm not just saying this against you Terum, I hope you understand. I'm stating this for all those who think the Athena is subpar. Alstar is right on the fact that with numbers Athenas outperform Prisms. Not everything is about damage as well. We can point out that the Athena is much more durable and has a better range than a prism tank. 

 

As for the Hailstorm, its range and aoe are very potent yet the damage is piss poor and it has the worst dps out of all of the allies artillery pieces as well as being the most expensive. It is said that Hailstorms are misused and perhaps that is right. Although, in Anti infantry combat the Athena has a slow turn rate and can't escape easily, but the Hailstorm has a worse time turning. One thing I do like to note is that the Hailstorm is the tankiest of all artillery vehicles sitting at a staggering 600 health medium armor only surpassed by the Tarchia. 

 

Purely siege cadre torts are a bad investment just purely from an MP experience basis. 

[Thesilver]

I have been thinking about vultures a bit and more in particular their napalm ability. The strange way for deploying with air units makes it very hard to use offensively (and even defensively) as they cannot occupy the same space as other vultures or deploy right above buildings or nonstandard terrain. What if the new deploy transforming mechanic is used for the vulture instead? The vulture would get a new weapon that shoots the napalm bombs at very low range (1 or even 0 if possible). That way you can actually target and strike enemy buildings with the napalm bombs since it becomes an aimed projectile. Opinions?

[Divine]

I have been thinking about vultures a bit and more in particular their napalm ability. The strange way for deploying with air units makes it very hard to use offensively (and even defensively) as they cannot occupy the same space as other vultures or deploy right above buildings or nonstandard terrain. What if the new deploy transforming mechanic is used for the vulture instead? The vulture would get a new weapon that shoots the napalm bombs at very low range (1 or even 0 if possible). That way you can actually target and strike enemy buildings with the napalm bombs since it becomes an aimed projectile. Opinions?

 

Speaking of deploy abilities, it would be nice if we could order Kirovs to start dropping bombs continuously. Why do they have an ammo counter anyway?

[Petya]

Speaking of deploy abilities, it would be nice if we could order Kirovs to start dropping bombs continuously. Why do they have an ammo counter anyway?

It's called 'Force Attack' command. If you haven't noticed, they drop the bombs faster until the Ammo counter hits 0, after that they drop the bombs according to the reload rate, which is slower.