257 replies to this topic

[PACER]

Front-line infiltrators like Hijackers are too easily spotted and killed in PvP. it's more useful in PvE.

 

D-Es are very effective against infantry swarms. As a result, a human opponent will probably stop spamming infantry at the first sight and render your D-Es useless.

[Destroyencio]

Hijackers are good combined with Shadow Ring. Dybbuk-Es are useful a lot, specially with most of Epsi players going infantry. Infantry is the major powersource of Epsilon thanks to Cloning Vats and having solid and flexible infantry. Vs Foehn they're useful too.

[Handepsilon]

Now if only their bombs are instant so it won't result a neutral Brute

[Damfoos]

Genomines are much worse in that regard. I wonder if is possible to give them MADMAN treatment so they would self-destruct a few seconds after explosion, when mutation has already started.

[X1Destroy]

So, DE is only good for mirror Epsilon matches?

Soviet and Allied certainly don't spam infantry. And Foehn.....good luck using that on Giantsbanes.

Edited by X1Destroy, 13 March 2017 - 03:02 PM.

[Handepsilon]

"It is said that the Evolvers are only used against his enemies as a last resort"

Now we know the real reason of it

[doctormedic]

Doesnt make it any better through

[Dracojan]

Peace through power, brothers!

 

Beware, my post will be quite long because i'd like to discuss all units, powers and building. which are useful, which are not and why and which are simply not used much for no real reason. Those that i don't mention are mandatory and its useless talking about them. (this is all based on my experience and the units i do or do not use)

 

Soviets

 

battle bunker. heavily overused. the battle bunker is extremely useful with all infantry and can easily be made universally good against all unit types. bunkers are low tier and easily one of the best defensive structures in the entire game.

 

sentry gun. underused. the defensive structure is cheap but its uses are limited. useful in a dire situation but overall not so useful. thats why its heavily situational and heavily underused.

 

tesla coil is a higher tier defence with longer range and damage but its again more situational than bunkers and is underused. i build them when there is no suitable terrain for bunkers or when i dont have the time to build a bunker and populate it with infantry. could be more cost effective anti armor than a bunker with better armor/heath but thats not by a lot to make it a superior choice.

 

sensor tower. i always build one in pve where most of my defences are and is typically less for its effects than just for the sake of it. in typical games you wouldnt want to waste money on it. its -10% health effect is too low, its only against a single enemy and defencewise it makes a lot less sense than having any one defensive structure in its place. also its heavy power useage is another heavy drawback. the additional plus for it is that you cant scout directly in its range but thats completely negated by manual scouting with dogs/units or using scout powers close by and scouting that area as a consequence. the usefulness of the building will be highest against few super high hp units at a place where you have a lot of defensive structures and that -10% will translate to more than having another defensive structure. needless to say this is extremely unlikely and right now the structure is rather useless. still building one (this building is not made to be build many times anyway) is actually a medium usage in pve and heavily underused everywhere else.

 

drakuv. underused. the unit is summoned with a support power which costs more than any other ground warfactory unit and has limited use. it fires very slowly and against vehicles its melee range. its effects are really fantastic and i summon 1-2 for the sake of it and hope they land the killing blow on units so i can get the tech for it but at their price they are not useful. against vehicles the unit sees even more limited use and is generally just a somewhat support/for fun unit at this time. 

 

spy satelite overused early game and underused late game. as all map revealing skill, its very useful early on when you still havent revealed the entire map and also has some use later against allies. most of the time i sacrifice a dog to scout an enemy than wait for this power to come online. 

 

naval mine underused. could be useful in naval battles where you tip a battle in your favour by using it but thats extremely rare occurance. the aoe damage of it is not that bad for its rather low price but because it cant kill units in one explosion, its more or less just waste of money.

 

repair drone. underused. the repair drone is a good on field repair vehicle but only one can be summoned and is very fragile. in most pvp battles it will be targeted, even if its in the back. its much more effective in numbers. for most defensive battles, battle cranes are superior.

 

battle crane medium usage. i always build them in positions where i may need to defend or just to repair costly units. the structure is very useful at repairing all ground and air units at a good rate and its cost is very good. the crane is high tier i build it after many higher priority structures that would provide me with a more imminent value

 

tank drop/terror drop. underused. i have a very positive opinion on reinforcement powers but the game is more focused on larger armies that these powers are just not very useful. i find terror drop better as even in small numbers they can do damage and costs less while tank drop is a waste of money. in a differently designed game they could be a lot more useful but in MO have very limited use.

 

overcharge. medium use. useful when you have enough tesla units and can have very high impact in battles. if i had huge tesla army all the time, i would see no reason why i wouldnt be spamming this power. right now its useful when you attack with tesla tanks but useless unless fighting or without tesla units.

 

smoke turret. underused. good for defensive lines vs AI but less useful in pvp as the enemy will evade it at all costs. overall its super effective defensive structure but its normally something you would build only just a few of them and will not need as many as you get.

 

motor ambush. underused. useless. the units cant deal any damage and is just a waste of money. 

 

flame turret. underused. its a situational power that can have some uses when defending a valuable area outside of the base early on or preventing small infantry groups from moving unchecked but is easily destroyed and becomes very ineffective when heavy vehicles come into play.

 

smoke bombs. underused. another situational power which is actually very valuable. its most useful against big groups of units and if you hit your enemy's army right before attacking it will be super effective. most of the time the enemy wont concentrate his army in 1 place and this power will not be as useful in such situations.

 

emp mines. underused. useless

 

irradiation. underused. this power is good for its cost (no cost) and can deal some additional damage but most of the time i rely solely on the firepower of my units and its a rarety something would come close to my nuwas. 

 

wallbuster. underused. only useful against a lot of costly defences so its uses are limited and it is not very cost effective otherwise.

 

gear change. underused. this economy power looks interesting but is only useful if you are completely broke and dont have any immediate means to get money. as long as you have a healthy economy, the power will only hurt your production.

 

emp. underused. i find myself rarely relying on this support power to fight vehicles. and i think this shouldnt be the case

 

iron guard. underused. this is a great defensive structure when you and your enemy have smaller armies but becomes less relevant later on. can be used to very great effectiveness if the enemy has limited attack routes.

 

iron curtain invulnerability. overused. very good support superweapon with smaller attack groups and can be very effective with many different unit types. not as useful when big armies clash

 

nuke. overused. i just love nukes. its my favourite superweapon just because its a nuke. i'd love it if you (mental meisters) change the animation to the nuke of the lionheart. i always try to build it and use it, even if its not worth the cost(money, time and power) at that point of time. the nuke is useful enough but its only mediumly strong. tempest is the strongest and lightning storm is the weakest. more to that later.

 

basic infantry. normal usage.

 

pyro and tesla trooper. overused, the backbone of the soviet infantry army, good against almost everything.

 

crazy ivan. underused. its cost and close range make it ineffective in most situations. its somewhat good at baiting the enemy but most of the time its a waste of money.

 

desolator and eradicator are very useful anti infantry/unit specialists but i rarely mass them. medium use.

 

chitzkoi and volkov. overused. very strong heroes with great universal use.

 

morales. underused. costly, easily killed and high priority unit that most of the time is a waste of money because its quickly targeted. its high range is not enough when he us that slow. defending him with a big army is not really worth the apm.

 

arsonist. underused. fantastic unit designwise but is too costly and easily detectable

 

saboteurs. overused. weak and easily killable units but i always try to get some new tech and most importantly warfactory veterancy. because if their high cost, not so easily spammable.

 

gyrocopter. overused. highly mobile units with good damage against masses of infantry. easily why i dont use more eradicators. 

 

yunru. underused. can emp own units, useful as support but most of the time not cost effective. useless as eathshaker. 

 

main battle tanks (all) deal no damage against infantry, base and air and they cant run over too many units. they fail as assault units and thats why most prefer to tech up and/or use different units. underused

 

anti air vehicles. medium use. these have a very specific use and very specific time for it. useful against most early game air but become outclassed later on when heavy anti air becomes available.

 

terror drones. overused? these are units which you would normally build only a few of and are for disruptive purposes. their effectiveness for cost is high but can be easily countered without proper micro.

 

borilo/armadilo. overused. these are heavy assault units which pretty much take the role of the main battle tanks. the infantry space inside make them that much more useful. build time is high so rushes are reasonably delayed.

 

bomb track/buggy. underused. these are expensive units that dont have enough damage for the risk they provide. only useful against structures and had to get to structures. much easier to use vs AI and can cause insane damage with iron curtain. bomb buggies are better because of their speed while bomb trucks may be rendered useless just because of units getting in their way or flat out destroying them.

 

tesla cruiser/catastrophy/nuwa cannon. overused. main t3 battle tanks that have some pros and cons but are overall very effective against most units.

 

scud launcher. overused. very good anti structure unit.

 

buratino. medium use. good against infantry but rather limited use vs buildings. can cause damage to your own units with fire.

 

centurion. underused. its limited quantity makes it too slow at dealing damage. nuwas are often the better assault unit. even at support (yunru, eradicators) the centurion is somewhat failing because of its slow speed. if you could built 2, then we would be talking.

 

dragonfly. underused. too much micro and monetary investment for large armies. could be very useful if small armies meet. very fragile.

 

fury drone. underused. too limited use and too high risk. its cheap enough to be useful but a standard unit yields similar effectiveness without that risk.

 

wolfhound/vulture. overused. both are fantastic defensive and supportive units but are normally used when there is no immediate thread. wolfhounds are anti armor and overall much more useful. at defensive play its universality is very valuable but heavy anti air renders it cost ineffective. vultures are the smaller brother that are not effective vs armor and their napalm is only situationally good. the high mobility makes them very good and useful but they cannot be used on their own vs anti air. ground units and/or building are needed as the backbone and protection vs anti air. their high tier can make them somewhat limited in the earlier stages of the game.

 

sentinel. overused. fantastic anti air and its heavy specialization can make the unit useless when no air units are used.

 

foxtrot. overused. very good anti unit jet bomber with fantastic aoe ability. i rarely skip them because they can provide insane value for their cost, even after the heavy nerfing.

 

kirov. underused. this is one very good unit as design and is something i love using in RA2 and YR but the anti air options in MO heavily counter it and make them a waste of money. if your economy is overwhelmingly stronger than the enemy, you can use them very effectively. also fantastic against foehn. you can quite safely get them to the enemy, shoot enemy defensive jets with wolfhounds and sacrifice some wolfhounds to the t1 anti air vehicles to take them out and deal heavy damage to the enemy. this strategy kills your opponent but if countered well will cost you a lot, maybe even the game.

 

dustdevil. underused. completely useless. for the confederation as the smoke bombing support power is much more effective and lot less costly. very situational use. against big strong armies with limited anti air they can prove useful but that is a rare sight.

 

the naval units are just basic and you cant do without them.

 

i will continue with the other factions at a later time.

i hope this whole post with spark some more discussions.

 

One Vision, One Purpose.

[CLAlstar]

[...]

Can i ask you something? Do you play multiplayer or you just type out stuff you happened to see from skirmish vs AI? At least 90% of units marked as underused/useless i can see on daily basis during online games. Centurion underused? Yunru underused? Sensor tower underused? Wallbuster, Irradiation, EMP underused? Complaint about saboteur price being too big so hes not spammable? Pardon the language but what the hell?

[TeslaCruiser]

drakuv. underused

repair drone. underused

tank drop/terror drop. underused

motor ambush. underused. useless

flame turret. underused

smoke bombs. underused

emp mines. underused. useless

irradiation. underused

wallbuster. underused

gear change. underused

emp. underused

iron guard. underused

morales. underused

arsonist. underused

yunru. underused

bomb track/buggy. underused
centurion. underused

dragonfly. underused

kirov. underused

dustdevil. underused

i will continue with the other factions at a later time.

i hope this whole post with spark some more discussions.

 

Pretty sure you play PvE only, and that is fine. But these things are frequently used

Maybe you mean the AI did not use these things?

Edited by TeslaCruiser, 17 March 2017 - 10:06 PM.

[Wayward Winds]

The way it's written sounds more like which units he uses rather than what the enemy throws at him.

Edited by Wayward Winds, 17 March 2017 - 08:51 PM.

[Battle Bee]

I mean, I don't think the words "overuse" and "underuse" are really fitting here.

Overused implies a unit is more popular than it should be, and underused implies a unit is not getting the attention it deserves.

[Admiral_Pit]

Peace through power, brothers!

 

Beware, my post will be quite long because i'd like to discuss all units, powers and building. which are useful, which are not and why and which are simply not used much for no real reason. Those that i don't mention are mandatory and its useless talking about them. (this is all based on my experience and the units i do or do not use)

 

Soviets

 

 

emp mines. underused. useless

 

irradiation. underused. this power is good for its cost (no cost) and can deal some additional damage but most of the time i rely solely on the firepower of my units and its a rarety something would come close to my nuwas. 

 

wallbuster. underused. only useful against a lot of costly defences so its uses are limited and it is not very cost effective otherwise.

 

gear change. underused. this economy power looks interesting but is only useful if you are completely broke and dont have any immediate means to get money. as long as you have a healthy economy, the power will only hurt your production.

 

emp. underused. i find myself rarely relying on this support power to fight vehicles. and i think this shouldnt be the case

 

gyrocopter. overused. highly mobile units with good damage against masses of infantry. easily why i dont use more eradicators. 

 

yunru. underused. can emp own units, useful as support but most of the time not cost effective. useless as eathshaker. 

 

main battle tanks (all) deal no damage against infantry, base and air and they cant run over too many units. they fail as assault units and thats why most prefer to tech up and/or use different units. underused

 

centurion. underused. its limited quantity makes it too slow at dealing damage. nuwas are often the better assault unit. even at support (yunru, eradicators) the centurion is somewhat failing because of its slow speed. if you could built 2, then we would be talking.

 

dragonfly. underused. too much micro and monetary investment for large armies. could be very useful if small armies meet. very fragile.

 

sentinel. overused. fantastic anti air and its heavy specialization can make the unit useless when no air units are used.

 

dustdevil. underused. completely useless. for the confederation as the smoke bombing support power is much more effective and lot less costly. very situational use. against big strong armies with limited anti air they can prove useful but that is a rare sight.

 

 

 

As a China main, what I see kinda bothers me, especially the ones in bold kinda bother me most, and I shall go through each of em.

 

 

-EMP Mines:  Try putting em next to enemy forces in your base.  It's actually very lethal, even though they'll be getting nerfs soon.

 

-Irradiation:  You can ask those who've played with me enough of the potential this ability.

 

-Wallbuster:  A favorite of mine, which has helped me get stolen tech so many times.  Besides that, it's still useful against a group of base defenses, and that really helps against turtlers.

 

-Gear Change:  It's not bad, especially during low-money stalemates so as long as you can last.

 

-EMP:  Try em against most non-fiber'd Foehn infantry too.  It really helps.  And imagine if it's just Foehn infantry that are coming, cue hungry Terror Drones after that.

 

-Gyrocopter:  Really good that you know of their use.  Just know the balance between them and Eradicators.

 

-Yunru:  Ah, the big one.  She's almost like a necessity when it comes down to shutting down armor divisions or most non-fibered Foehn infantry, and she can stunlock 2 groups if you manually control her well (best out of the Cent).  As for Earth Breaker, I've made use of it in the past, and actually will be willing to do it again just to show you that it aint useless... if you ever come across me that is...

 

-MBTs:  Each have their use, like Mantis/Bulldog/Jaguar rushes early on (that can run over infantry well with their speed), or the power + durability of Qilins.  They shouldn't be underestimated, and I say this for many reasons.

 

-Centurion:  You always have to have one of these when it's late game.  It's really the only thing China has that can outrange many things like T3 base defenses, can harass armor from a distance if controlled and supported well, has AA as well, and well, more.

 

-Dragonfly:  It is underrated, yes, but it still has many uses, like sinking hover units on water, or slowing down enemy economy by holding down miners (which you can also kill if they're undefended), and they can even jam enemy radar if you can sneak one close to the enemy's radar.

 

-Sentinel:  Definitely good, but one should know the balance between using them and Halftracks, as Halftracks have some perks over Sentinels sometimes.

 

-Dustdevil:  Not useless.  Just being able to debuff the attack of groups of enemies if handled well can turn the tides when armies clash (and even distract AA troops in the process).

 

 

While I may slightly understand if it's your preference, but I can still see you're not seeing the full potential of some of those things.  As for China, I'll gladly show you some potential with em if we do fight,

[Magma1Lord]

when you say overused it sounds like it's a bad thing which I do not really understand. But I'm eager to see what you think about the other factions.

[Dracojan]

underused and overused dont mean weak/good. just used in great numbers or not (universal/specialized). for example the smoke turret is very strong for defence but you wouldnt want to spam them because their effectiveness doesnt increase.

 

dust devils are still useless. i rather invest 1000$ in dust bombing than make the dust devils. not only are dust devils more expensive and cover smaller areas but are also easier to shoot down. i dont see huge armies clash more often than the cooldown of the support power.

 

the nuke i would try to build as often as i can because i like it and i wouldnt leave it ready without firing while most support powers that i state are underused would wait a good while before they have a good useful timing.

 

the centurion is useful if you want cost efficiency late game but in the mid game i wouldnt bother with it and will try to run over my opponent.

 

Complaint about saboteur price being too big so hes not spammable?

 

its not really a complaint but you cant really spam them. clairvoyants you can spam, the other spies you cant. wasting say 10-20k (spam) is giving up on life and the game. you can more easily see larger infantry movements on the map as are even easier to counter. building only 1-2 at a time and trying to sneak them in from an angle that the enemy is less likely to detect them. i think this is how they should be and not being spammable isnt a bad thing.

The way it's written sounds more like which units he uses rather than what the enemy throws at him.

 (this is all based on my experience and the units i do or do not use)

 

maybe i havent stated this well. it is indeed based on the units i use, and not the units i see against me. also all the underused are so for a good reason and that reason isnt that the units are not useful. on the contrary, its because of the entire game design which counts to specialize units instead of making them universally good against everything. this is a good design btw, and prevents the boring tank rushes from older ages

[Destroyencio]

You forget that spies can disguise and pass trough most of everything that are not dogs or clairvoyants?
 

Clairvoyants can't do that, instead they get attacked by defenses and they don't last much.

[Divine]

You forget that spies can disguise and pass trough most of everything that are not dogs or clairvoyants?
 

Clairvoyants can't do that, instead they get attacked by defenses and they don't last much.

Having spinbladed Jackals loaded with Clairvoyants early in the game is a viable strategy. If anything, Clairvoyants are the most dangerous of all the infiltrators if they are used right. Or maybe they are second after the Infiltrator + Driller + Shadow Ring combo. 

Edited by Divine, 18 March 2017 - 11:53 AM.

[Revan0123]

Underused buildings: Radar Tower

 

If only because it doesn't exist anymore

[Damfoos]

#bringbacktheradartower

[X1Destroy]

I used to think that the Arsonist isn't a threat, until I play Molten core challenge...........