490 replies to this topic

[Olorin]

I'm no modder, but I'm fairly certain that Khand will be a cavalry mini-faction, and Far Harad will offer the half-trolls of far harad, basically dark-skinned troll sized men. They are heavy units.

Switch those two names and then you'll be nearly correct. Khand was known for it's half-trolls last time I looked, where-as Far Harad I think will have some form of Mumak as their prime unit. That's what I think is going to happen.

[Lauri]

uhm, I do belive Alsch has it right here....

The raiders of Khand and the far trolls of Harad.... uhm, Half trolls of far Harad I mean

[Durin The Deathless]

The people mentioned in the books were Variags form Khand, black men LIKE half-trolls from Far Harad, and the haradrim had the cavalry, the southron horsemen, Theoden slew the Black Serpent Chieftain and the banner-bearer. The Easterlings that Gothmog commanded had axes, it describes them as "Not tall, but broad and grim, bearded like dwarves, wielding great axes." Personally I think it may be quite possible that these were the Variags, because it says the Gondorians "deemed them to be from the Far East", Khand was in the Southeast, and the Varangians (of which I believe it was Celeglin who pointed out the word Variags was derived from) were armed with axes quite often. (Please anyone with more knowledge of the Varangians correct me).

[hdh7]

whell it all makes sense to me, but I still think far harad should have some type of mumak unit. It would brobably be to much with the half trolls though.

[Alsch]

Having more than one Mumak would be kind of difficult. How would it be different from your average Mumak?

[theryo]

It could breath fire...like out of its trunk. That would be cool, right?

Edited by theryo, 08 February 2007 - 10:55 PM.

[hdh7]

yeah that would be fun, but more realisticly it could be a smaller, faster, weaker version of the Mumak, based around raiding and riding down infantry. It would be much more like cavalry, would fight with mounted archers, trample damage, and 2 long spears on both sides. Having 2 of them in one unit would also be a possibility.

[Alsch]

That's a bit of a stretch.

[hdh7]

Whats so strechy about it? or do you mean the fire part?

Edited by hdh7, 09 February 2007 - 01:39 AM.

[Olorin]

uhm, I do belive Alsch has it right here....

The raiders of Khand and the far trolls of Harad.... uhm, Half trolls of far Harad I mean

The people mentioned in the books were Variags form Khand, black men LIKE half-trolls from Far Harad, and the haradrim had the cavalry, the southron horsemen, Theoden slew the Black Serpent Chieftain and the banner-bearer. The Easterlings that Gothmog commanded had axes, it describes them as "Not tall, but broad and grim, bearded like dwarves, wielding great axes." Personally I think it may be quite possible that these were the Variags, because it says the Gondorians "deemed them to be from the Far East", Khand was in the Southeast, and the Varangians (of which I believe it was Celeglin who pointed out the word Variags was derived from) were armed with axes quite often. (Please anyone with more knowledge of the Varangians correct me).

OK...............right now I feel really dumb. Thank-you for clearing that up Durin the Deathless. I had read that before, just that that was a long time ago and I couldn't remember exactly what was written. I had always thought of Variags as being the half-trolls. Anyway, I'll read things before I make a statement from now on.

Having more than one Mumak would be kind of difficult. How would it be different from your average Mumak?

Maybe nerf its stats like make it smaller but faster, or maybe there could be armoured and unarmoured ones like in the movies.

It could breath fire...like out of its trunk. That would be cool, right?

That would be incredibly wierd, and it doesn't fit with Tolkien's works at all. But it would be funny seeing a giant elephant terrorising a city breathing fire out of its nostrils.

Whats so strechy about it? or do you mean the fire part?

Nah, just that it would be like a mega-cavalry, seeing as you suggested that it has mounted archers, trample damage to anything on the ground, and the two spears on the side which I don't really understand how that would work. And then you have two of them in a horde. Far too overpowering.

[Nertea]

Not to mention I don't think collision detection works for hordes, which looks ok for infantry but not for large units. *imagines mumaks walking through each other when turning around*

[Uruk King]

OK, so we have Khand and Far Harad figured out, now we must come down to Umbar. We know the main Harad faction provides us with good cavalry, Khand and Far Harad provide us with the Varaigs and Troll-men heavy and elite infantry. Umbar provides the Haradrim with the Corsairs; an elite archer/swordsman unit, I think. But I also noticed in the Return of the King that the Corsairs had some sort of Ballista on their ships, so mabye Umbar can provide the Harad faction with siege equipment, because they are more advanced than your regular Southron, so please could you provide an additional siege wepon for harad?

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[Olorin]

That was more of an order than a request, Uruk King. Could you please refrain from doing that? Although it does make sense.

[Uruk King]

Sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like a request, I was just suggesting, (if in a rather demanding way), that a balista would provide harad with more sophisticated seige weopns; with the exception of the Mumakil. I'm sure the team are doing their best to come up with minifaction units for Harad, but if Umbar hasn't been decided yet mabye you could refer to this suggestion. And I'll try not to make my thoughts sound like demands.

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Edited by Uruk King, 09 February 2007 - 02:30 PM.

[hdh7]

Okay, there could be just one mumak with no archers, and mounted soldiers would use the spears to jab downward at enemy units once the mumak had slowed down. It could also be very vunerable to pikemen even more so than regular cavalry.

[Canterbury]

I also noticed the balistas on the ships. Maybe it could be a smaller long ranged siege weapon. It was about 3-5 meters (guessing) because it had to fit onto a ship, so it wouldnt be very strong. It could could serve as the main siege weapons for the Harad faction in my imagination because i dont like the idea of mumakils breaking down gates.

[Alsch]

I actually always liked the idea of a siege Mumak with a ladder on one side, and a boarding platform on the other, to allow men to climb up the mumak and onto a wall, but a purely siege-based mumakil is a bit unrealistic.

[Canterbury]

I think that in real life, when the haradrim are crossing those boarding ramps, archers can just shoot at the mumak which makes it go crazy, and all the men falls to their death

[Olorin]

Sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like a request, I was just suggesting, (if in a rather demanding way), that a balista would provide harad with more sophisticated seige weopns; with the exception of the Mumakil. I'm sure the team are doing their best to come up with minifaction units for Harad, but if Umbar hasn't been decided yet mabye you could refer to this suggestion. And I'll try not to make my thoughts sound like demands.

No harm done then. I was just warning you because the last time someone (I won't mention any names) did something similar to what you did a whole argument broke out, so, yeah, just be careful about what you say.

Okay, there could be just one mumak with no archers, and mounted soldiers would use the spears to jab downward at enemy units once the mumak had slowed down. It could also be very vunerable to pikemen even more so than regular cavalry.

I still don't like the idea. I mean it's gonna be a huge beast; how can spears (unless they're impossibly long) reach down and poke the enemy below, even if your Mumakil are small enough? It just doesn't make any sense, from a realistic and traditional point of view.

I actually always liked the idea of a siege Mumak with a ladder on one side, and a boarding platform on the other, to allow men to climb up the mumak and onto a wall, but a purely siege-based mumakil is a bit unrealistic.

I think that in real life, when the haradrim are crossing those boarding ramps, archers can just shoot at the mumak which makes it go crazy, and all the men falls to their death

Canterbury beat me to it. It wouldn't be a good strategy to use, no matter how interesting it sounds. And I don't think that a Mumakil will be standing there peacefully while there's a war going on a few metres away.

[Uruk King]

When it comes down to the Harad faction and siege, were pretty stumped, except for Mumakil and ballistas, there are no siege tower-esque stuctures, but mabye Corsairs could scale walls lke the ones in BFME II, kinda like the Thirrad of Mirkwood, even though Bard said that they aren't meant to scale walls. But still Harad could do with wall scalers.

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