487 replies to this topic

[The Best Guest]

*looks around for Zimmo* no we do not need it to be exactly to lore

[Garrison Nomad]

TBG....zimoo left. least temporarily.

Anyways, it'd be cool if shelob, the spider holes, and everything else like that was eventually removed. Shelob could be a recrutable creep in a Cirith Ungol map (remember in Bfme1 you had to feed her to get her on your side), along with the spiderlings. A lot of the unused stuff could go that way.

[The Best Guest]

instead of as a summoun the spiderlings could be trained from shelob

[Garrison Nomad]

^^i mentioned that before. It's very possible it will be implemented.

[Rindy]

Concerning goblin shamans:


Games Workshops Goblins

um... this site is great. Games Workshop seems to have some interesting models Especially the dwarven heroes are cool, for example: Mardin and Balin

EDIT:
Intresting! Here's a german description of the goblin shamans

"Seit ungezählten Jahrhunderten sind die Schamanen der Moria-Goblins die Werkzeuge, durch die Sauron seinen Willen auf seine niedersten Diener ausübt. Goblinschamanen können die Krieger so anstacheln, dass sie Angst und Schmerz ignorieren und selbst mit den schrecklichsten Verletzungen weiterkämpfen. Die grausame Herrschaft eines Goblinschamanen reicht aus, um die Goblinhorde weiterzutreiben, trotz gravierender Verluste."

I'll try to translate it for you:

"Since uncounted centuries, the shamans of the moria-goblins are the tools for Sauron to exert his will on the meanest of his minions. Golbin shamans can incite the warriors so much, that they ignore fear and pain and fight on even with the most terrible wounds. The cruel dominance of a golbin shaman will suffice to drive the horde of golbins further, despite grave casualties."

EDIT 2: As it seems, there really IS a goblin king.. but his name seems to be Durbûrz.

Edited by Rindy, 15 July 2007 - 11:43 PM.

[The Best Guest]

instead of a blade like in the above there should be a balrog head that shoots a weak fireball

[Garrison Nomad]

@ Rindy-You're awesome, man! That's the kinda goblin shaman I envisioned, and his power, too! I like the idea of him having a spear, being more ceremonial than fierce. 1000 cool points for you.

@ Tbg-...err.......right. Fireball=yes, Roghead=Eww. The team might like it, but....meh.

Edited by Garrison Nomad, 16 July 2007 - 01:55 AM.

[Nazgûl]

lol, no there won't be any Balrog head on a Shaman, and if we ad Shaman, it won't be for this release. I have no idea what he looks like either... We only have a model and skin (pretty much like my skins, dark, dirty armor) and I THINK he has a staff, not sure though... (It's donated from Argolis's Wars of Arda mod)...

About spiders - again For BetaV:
- Spider Riders will go and be replaced by Wolf Riders, and maybe riderless Wolf Packs too...
- Spiderlings will be summons for Shelob (I wanna use the one with the eggs that are in the Spell Book now and "execute" it exactly where she stands when using that power) They will also stay in spider lairs. The mini spiders will stay as "fortress lairs" as well... so the change is only that Spiderlings will be gone as regular units.
- Shelob will stay as hero too (^), she's FAR too interesting to be left in one map only, sorry =p

[Rindy]

Hmm... I just had some ideas!
It would be cool, to have two more heroes for goblins: Durbûrz and a goblin shaman. They could look like this:

Durrbûrz the Goblin King



Lvl - Powers
1 - "For the Horde!!" () Leadership to goblin units
2 - Untamed Allegiance (Gain control of creep lair) is this possible with the expanding creep ideas os sul? maybe this would be unfitting if we add creeps like townsfolk or so. still, he's a king and should have some influence on evil creatures!
3 - Train Allies
4 - Inspire fear (since everyone would feel a little uncomfortable seeing himself surrounded by a HORDE of gobos, not? ^^)
5 - Howl of Rage Give all surrounding units a boost to their stats
6 - Improved Train Allies
7 - Improved Inspire fear
8 - Great Train Allies
9 - Improved Howl of Rage
10 - King of Shadows, a improved leadership bonus! (Giving the units 75% instead of 50% attack power & armor)

Unnamed Goblin Shaman (using Gorkils model?)

Lvl - Powers
1 - Howl of Rage
2 - "Praise the Darkness" a dark healing spell
3 - "Fire of the Deeps" launch a fireball at selected targets (taken from the "Third Age" game)
4 - Improved Howl of Rage
5 - "Fight on, you Maggots!!!" A new ability, cancelling fear effects on your units!!! This could counter Aragorns "Elendil" or the good power "Cloud Break" This would be a nice addition, i can already see good players going "WTF, they fight on even if feared them???"
6 - Improved "Fire of the Deeps" launches a fireball at multiple targets or with a bigger splah damage
7 - Improved "Praise the Darkness"
8 - Great Howl of Rage, making the goblin soldiers go crazy
9 - Great "Fire of the Deeps" calls down a rain of fire
10 - "The Horde is strong!" a spell like golden charge of the rohirrim, letting the goblin units take only 10% of damage for some seconds

Both these heroes would have to be WEAK and should always be guarded by other units!!



INSTEAD of the (in my opinion really cool) goblin shaman or as an ADDITION, we could also add regular shamans, a bit like the Warcraft 3 orc shamans. Their abilities would simply be an addition to damage when fighting alongside goblins

[Lauri]

you know, normal heroes doesn't use the Improved things like the CaH does

[Garrison Nomad]

yeah.....and they probably wouldn't have all CaH powers, either.

Edited by Garrison Nomad, 16 July 2007 - 04:03 PM.

[Strider]

I can be our Loremaster until Zimmo gets back. And yes, Goblins Shammans seem to go against Lore as far I can remember.

"Fight on, you Maggots!!!" A new ability, cancelling fear effects on your units!!! This could counter Aragorns "Elendil" or the good power "Cloud Break" This would be a nice addition, i can already see good players going "WTF, they fight on even if feared them???"
I like this power idea.

As far as heros, plese choose, Azog or Bolg. Seems like they would be clones to me. Azog is more Infamous, so my vote is go with him.

And for a power for Azog I got a cool idea that was in the books. How about something called "Mark of the Slayer" or something like that. Mark of the something. In it he basically delivers a very powerful blow to a hero, like Assassign. I got this idea from the books when a party of Dwarves went to Moria to resettle it only one was brave enough to go in. Later on the door opened and the Goblins through out his body and said "On his face is branded the name of the new King of Moria!" and "Azog" was burnt on his face in Dwarvish runes.

Edited by Strider, 16 July 2007 - 05:30 PM.

[Garrison Nomad]

Blog

hehe, he said Blog .

But add them both, IMO. they're only clones if you MAKE them clones. There are too many sword heroes in this game, anyways. make Azog an archer and Bolg a warrior.

and may I state this in a booming echoey voice: Why does everything HAVE to be in the lore? sure, spider riders are a massive stretch, but things like Goblin Shamans are gameplay aspects, and shouldn't have to have a whole book on them to be considered for a mod.

Heh, but it's all up to you guys.

[Strider]

Typo. Grow up.

Id think Bolg would be the better archer and Azog the warrior.

Some Lore stretches are fine. But were nto even in Middle-earth anymore if we have Spider Riders and Goblin Shamans. Do we really want that?

[Nazgûl]

^ Someone needs to grow a scense of humour I think?

- Spider Riders are history for BetaV as stated like 500 times now
- Goblin Shamans... I am not sure about those either, but we'll see. They won't be in Beta 4.5 though... But we will have the Goblin Spearmen and the reworked "Half Trolls" =)

[Garrison Nomad]

IMO goblin shamans aren't really as much of a strech as they are an inferrence. For example, it's known that the Goblins worshipped the Balrog, right? And Orcs had a habit of idolizing things (the orcs worshipped sauron) and the things they idolized sometimes gave them power. A clanchief of a ruddy band of Goblins could delve into some kind of sorcery, and it's very likely that some did, cosidering their masters did.

The point I'm trying to make is that sometimes, for a game's sake, you have to bend the rules. And besides, what's wrong with the Goblin Shaman? It's very unique, that's for sure. And Mordor already has a drummer. Drums in the Deep sounds like a cool fortress upgrade/power to me, and could even replace bloodthirsty in appearance, but not in functionality.

[Nazgûl]

Warg Riders anyone...
http://forums.revora...&...st&p=483116

[Strider]

Goblins alreadt have a drummer for support. Drums are realistic. Goblins doing magic are not. I dont recall anything of the Goblins worhsiping the Balrog, but more shitting their pants when they see/hear it. Remember how they all ran in the movie when they heard it? Same goes for Sauron. Majority of his minions followed either our fo fear for their lives or against their will. Evil men though are an exception of this. They thought allying themselves with him was a smart military move.

Yay! Goblin Warg riders! Question: Will they be coming out of the same building? Or are they gonna get one fo their own?

[Garrison Nomad]

Those goblin wargs are great! How much are they going to differ in movement from isen's wargs, ehh? I do like that you used the wild warg for the warg, instead of Isen's good-ole' inbread brown wargs.

very good job.

The goblin isn't necessarily "doing" magic. A goblin shaman is like a witchdoctor. A medicineman, almost. All the shaman really does is give leadership bonuses, simply by being a figurehead. Shaman really isn't the right word for it; elder would fit it better. Clanchief, almost.

The goblin shaman/elder's only purpose would be to buff goblin/allied forces, if you hate it that much. A supporting spellcaster would fit Goblins very well gameplaywise.

[Nazgûl]

But it would kinda make the drummer obsolete, and I like the drummer... So, we'll see.. At least we took care of the Spider Rider crap now