556 replies to this topic

[Mordor Slayer]

Tolkien only described the Dwarves having regular bows I think...

Tolkien said the Dwarves had regular bows I think, not crossbows.

[Nazgûl]

What if we made the Axes MUCH more powerful but also MUCH less in use... I mean that they can't throw them more then every 5 seconds or something... (call it aiming and being careful not to wate them?)

I also imagine that an arrow hitting a moderately armored dude would hurt badly, but a big friggin axe would surely make a heck of a lot more damage...

[Sûlherokhh]

Both have their values in combat. Axe is mostly whack, no matter what armor type. Either you'll have a bad shock and/or broken bones or you'll bleed in addition for that. Arrows need to go deep for any real damage. But if stuck somewhere, you're bad off until you pull it out. Too bad if your plate armor now has inward bent parts tugging at your wound.
Bows also have a higher range and accuracy.

Suggestion: Make arrow damage higher against LA than against HA, more so than before. Make Axe more effective against HA than before. Short range should compensate for that. Remove anti arial attacks. Axes are hard to throw high with accuracy. Maybe add a reflexive (and very effective) Melee Attack with an axe, much like Rangers defend with a sword on close range. Should do about half the damage that a guardian does (throwing axe used as a melee weapon). Oh and yes, cut RoF by half.

[Nazgûl]

What is "RoF"... ^

[Sûlherokhh]

Rate of Fire.

[Mathijs]

I'd remove axethrowers altogether, because it's rediculous to have an entire regiment of soldiers carrying heavy axes around. Thats just not how it works, soldiers might carry one or two throwing axes, not quivers of em for chrissakes.

I'd say Dwarven archers are far more unique then axethrowers, because it seems far too many people associate dwarves with axes instantly.

[Garrison Nomad]

^^or blunderbusses, but that's a different reality.

Anyways, axethrowers were always my favorite dwarven unit, but i agree, they need some rethinkin. maybe Bring in the dwarven archers and make a hero axethrower, using the same body and stuff, reskinned?

[Mathijs]

Yeah, they sure were in EA's plans, along other rediculous ideas.

I wouldn't suggest cross-bow Dwarves either, because once again, Tolkien described Dwarves with regular bows, and Tolkien's Dwarves were good miners and craftsmen, not technicians like they are in every other fantasy universe.

[aragon94]

Hmmm... dont know if it is too late, but I am giving ideas for dwarven heroes

(Feel free to change anything or give suggestions)

RING HERO: DURIN

(Dont know what to put in here cuz I still dont know if ring heroes will start at level 1, willl have loads of powers or only 2 like galadriel and sauron)

BALIN

-Leadership: level 1. Grants leadership bonus to nearby troops.

-Dwarven Charge: level 4. All nearby dwarven troops get a huge boost for damage armor and speed for 20 seconds.

-Rage of Khazad-Dum: level 6. Grants Balin a bonus to damage and armor.

-Summon dwarven Bersekers: level 10. Speaks for itself like 3 hordes.

THORIN OAKSHIELD

-Leadership: level 1. Grants leadership bonus to nearby troops.

-Throw Axe: level 3. Throws an axe like gimli´s to a single target enemy.

-Stubborn Pride: level 5. Same as Dain´s. No fear to nearby units.

-Last Stand: level 10. Nearby dwarven troops and heroes get invulnerability (or very high defence) for some time.

FUNDIN

-Battle Rage: level 1: fundin gains a boost to damage and armor for some time.

-Leadership: level 4: grants leadership bonus to nearby troops.

-Secret Gate: level 7: spawns an Undermine gate where selected.

Hope you like them

(I have more in my mind so just ask )

[Mathijs]

Fundin is even more dead then Balin...

And the staff is using Thorin Stonehelm I believe, not Oakenshield. Or I hope it's Stonehelm, because the son of Dain Ironfoot is more interesting then his dead cousin.

[aragon94]

Well, nvm lol. If not just change his name

[Strider]

I saw give the Dwarves normal bow archers, and make Axe throw a power like Black Arrow. Dwarves having so many axes on their back is so unrealistic.

And same for the hero. An Archer Dwarf hero would be cool, mabye make Balin(if we add him) an archer? But dont make the hero use all throwing axes either, since its very unrealistic. A Crossbow mabye? Either one, just not a throwing axe hero.

Isint Brand a enough of an Archer hero?

Edit: If we are adding Thorin Oakenshield, add Balin as a Dwarf Archer Hero. If we are adding Thorin Stonehelm, make him an archer and scrap Balin.

Edited by Strider, 21 July 2007 - 04:39 PM.

[Nazgûl]

Matias, just for the sake of it: Could you post a list of ALL Dwarven heroes that was alive during this age?

[Biermann]

Can I do it, Naz?
Bombur
Bofur
Bifur
Ori
Nori
Oín (not sure, I think that he died in Moria with Balin).
King Dain ( )
Gimli ( )
Glóin ( )
Thorin Stonehelm
I`m not sure, but I think that Durin VI was about 60 years old at this time.
There`one more from the 13 dwarves that traveled with Bilbo that was alive at this time, but I don`t remember his name.

Since Gollum is still with the ring, in the skirmishes at least, and a lot of dead heroes are in this mod, can`t we ignore this "dead heroes problem"? Lets say that this mod happens 30 years before the war of the ring (at this time, Balin was stll alive). I can`t see any problem with this, because this mod don`t fit the campaign anyway. And if the problem is the dwarves having too much heroes, please remember that the elves have the elven heroes + the hobbits + gwahir. The dwarves, with Balin, Thorin (Oakshield or Stonehelm) and kind Brand would have just 7 + eagle. The goblins have the same problem.

About the axetrowers, Tolkien himself says in The Hobbit that the dwarves used crossbows. So no problem in replace the axetrowers with crossbowmens. I said that I support the axe trower hero just to don't just abandone the model. But, silgle unit or horde, axe trowers are very unrealistic. To me, the best idea would be replace their banner carrier with the wagon loaded with axes, if they have to be in the mod. But, Naz is the one who should decide this.

[Mathijs]

What do you define as a hero?

Dwarves suitable for the position would be those that became bloody rich after the quest in the Hobbit, you know, Bilbo's companions that survived.

Dori, Nori, Ori, Bombur, Bofur, Bifur, Dwalin... many to pick from.

EDIT: Biermann, Tolkien does not state they use crossbows. He states they use bows.

Edited by Matias, 21 July 2007 - 07:22 PM.

[Nazgûl]

Yeah well, u know... prominent guys... Dwarves with "caracter impact"!
Thanks... ^ Those were some to choose from in case I decide NOT to go against the lore folks, hehe

What about the Thorins's... who was alive at this time and who was not? Stonehelm - is that the Thorin at this time?

Edited by Nazgûl, 21 July 2007 - 07:34 PM.

[Mathijs]

Thorin Oakenshield was the Dwarf who led a company to retake Erebor, and he was the rightful lord of that mountain. He died in the Battle of the Five Armies that took place after Smaug was killed. Thorin Stonehelm is the son of Dain Ironfoot, who was lord of Erebor during the War of the Ring.

[Nazgûl]

Ok thanks for clearing that out

[Biermann]

No one of those dwarves are called Hero by Tolkien. In truth, they are among the few that he at least gave names, so presumably they are important .

I don't have my The Hobbit book right now, but I remember something about the crossbows. But mabye it could be an error in the translating to Portuguese, here in Brazil we, LOTR fans, had a lot of problems with translation of the books. If I'm mistaken, please forgive me. The guys who translated it changed and even invented some passages. The Hobbit I have only in Portuguese, but The Lord of the Rigs I have in English.