556 replies to this topic

[Nazgûl]

A bit OffT, but yes - it's the same here in Sweden. The guy that translated them into Swedish (Åke... something) has almost like left the country cause so many hate him for his work. He invented names and interpreted things widely off sometimes...

That's why I've bought them all in english recently, but I have no time to read them...



The debate about Dwarven heroes is tough and long, but I'm sure we'll end up with something nice in the end =)

[Garrison Nomad]

hmm....i can see the crossbow thing. And may i say a craftsman and a technician are one in the same, to the dwarves. I like crossbowmen, though maybe best suitd as a hero. i like the idea of dwarven bowmen having an axe throw ability.

And I like the axe-thrower hero because the axethrower is one of EA's better models. I mean, why don't archers ever run out of arrows, eh? Why don't your people ever sleep or eat? It's part of those things that make the game TOO realistic. Plus, it'd still be something different.

[The Best Guest]

the concept art at the official ea site has a dwarven crossbowman i think

[Mathijs]

hmm....i can see the crossbow thing. And may i say a craftsman and a technician are one in the same, to the dwarves. I like crossbowmen, though maybe best suitd as a hero. i like the idea of dwarven bowmen having an axe throw ability.

And I like the axe-thrower hero because the axethrower is one of EA's better models. I mean, why don't archers ever run out of arrows, eh? Why don't your people ever sleep or eat? It's part of those things that make the game TOO realistic. Plus, it'd still be something different.

So... because you dont run out of arrows is your argument to add axethrowers with unlimited axes?

Axes are large, heavy and require more training and less range to be effective, and Tolkien states they used bows. Thats my argument.

[The Best Guest]

Crossbow bolts are much more realistic tahn axes and are probaly better to use because you can carry dozens and can shoot from further away

Edited by That Best Guest, 22 July 2007 - 01:36 AM.

[Garrison Nomad]

hmm....i can see the crossbow thing. And may i say a craftsman and a technician are one in the same, to the dwarves. I like crossbowmen, though maybe best suitd as a hero. i like the idea of dwarven bowmen having an axe throw ability.

And I like the axe-thrower hero because the axethrower is one of EA's better models. I mean, why don't archers ever run out of arrows, eh? Why don't your people ever sleep or eat? It's part of those things that make the game TOO realistic. Plus, it'd still be something different.

So... because you dont run out of arrows is your argument to add axethrowers with unlimited axes?

Axes are large, heavy and require more training and less range to be effective, and Tolkien states they used bows. Thats my argument.

Ok, i may be shot down for saying this, but why the crap dos every damn thing anybody puts in a game have to be straight from Tolkien, eh? What's wrong with axethrowers? And yes, that is my argument. It's a game, so there's obviously going to be some aspects that aren't realistic to physics or the lore. If Naz wants to implement an ammo system, by all means, he should go for it.

I think that an axethrower HERO would be cool, but that dwarven bows/Xbows would be cool as an archer unit.

[Nazgûl]

I agree GN, but T3A has always had some major "Guardians of the Books", or "Lore Guys" as I call them (sorry if I'm talking like you wont read this) like Zimoo and Matias for instance. I'm not saying they're wrong - at all, cause when things are not clearly defined in the movies, I'd PREFER to have them alingned with the books, and I find it very educational and interesting to read about lore facts. (At least when it's presented nicely). But I'm not BOUND to it That's why both Zimoo and Matias has "pffft" me quite a few times... and we've also argued about it *no harm done though*

What I'm saying is, I'm probably never gonna please the Lore folks 100%, since my main concern is to:
1) "simulate" the movies
2) keep it realistic
3) create a mod that is FUN and enjoyable

...and that does not mean that #2 is ALWAYS gonna prevail, it just means that I strive that way. But this IS a game, and it's still meant to be fun, playable and versatile, and I don't nescessarily find Dwarven archers a must. I just like dwarves with axes - so shoot me too?

But we'll see, when we get to dwarven faction for real... for Beta V =)

[Sûlherokhh]

If we give the axethrowers a backpack and add an extra reload anim where they open the back and get some fresh axes out, we might just make them only throw a max of 2 to 3 axes before they need a short break.

[Garrison Nomad]

I agree GN, but T3A has always had some major "Guardians of the Books", or "Lore Guys" as I call them (sorry if I'm talking like you wont read this) like Zimoo and Matias for instance. I'm not saying they're wrong - at all, cause when things are not clearly defined in the movies, I'd PREFER to have them alingned with the books, and I find it very educational and interesting to read about lore facts. (At least when it's presented nicely). But I'm not BOUND to it That's why both Zimoo and Matias has "pffft" me quite a few times... and we've also argued about it *no harm done though*

What I'm saying is, I'm probably never gonna please the Lore folks 100%, since my main concern is to:
1) "simulate" the movies
2) keep it realistic
3) create a mod that is FUN and enjoyable

...and that does not mean that #2 is ALWAYS gonna prevail, it just means that I strive that way. But this IS a game, and it's still meant to be fun, playable and versatile, and I don't nescessarily find Dwarven archers a must. I just like dwarves with axes - so shoot me too?

But we'll see, when we get to dwarven faction for real... for Beta V =)

understood. I agree, too, but if the game was completely linear to the books some parts of it would be no fun at all. ._.

sounds cool, Sul. Maybe have em holding two axes instead of that pointless little basketball/shield.

[Mathijs]

I agree GN, but T3A has always had some major "Guardians of the Books", or "Lore Guys" as I call them (sorry if I'm talking like you wont read this) like Zimoo and Matias for instance. I'm not saying they're wrong - at all, cause when things are not clearly defined in the movies, I'd PREFER to have them alingned with the books, and I find it very educational and interesting to read about lore facts. (At least when it's presented nicely). But I'm not BOUND to it That's why both Zimoo and Matias has "pffft" me quite a few times... and we've also argued about it *no harm done though*

What I'm saying is, I'm probably never gonna please the Lore folks 100%, since my main concern is to:
1) "simulate" the movies
2) keep it realistic
3) create a mod that is FUN and enjoyable

...and that does not mean that #2 is ALWAYS gonna prevail, it just means that I strive that way. But this IS a game, and it's still meant to be fun, playable and versatile, and I don't nescessarily find Dwarven archers a must. I just like dwarves with axes - so shoot me too?

But we'll see, when we get to dwarven faction for real... for Beta V =)

*shoots Nazgul*

[Mordor Slayer]

Eh, was that meant as something funny? 'cause it sounds pretty angry...

[Mathijs]

I'm sure Nazgul gets it.

[cahik_]

possible way how to solve that would be making dwarven archers/crossbowmans ( personally i like archers much more but crosbows arent that bad as axes) and making elite unit with using of axethrower model. giving them close range attack ( there is allready anim for that ) and giving them ability to throw like 2-3 axes after X minutes of reloding.

[Nazgûl]

@ Matias, yes I get it... It was "in reply" to what I said at the end: "so shoot me too"...

@ Cahik, yeah there are several ways we could keep the axethrowers in if we use archers instead, but we would need new models and anims, and I don't see it as any priority for this release anyways (if we decide to do it) =)

[Garrison Nomad]

I like the fact that Axechuckers are the dwarve's primary infantry. If you add X-bows, it'd be cool for it to stay that way. I also like the idea of crossbowmen/archers with an axethrow ability.

[Nazgûl]

I think the absolute best way to do this (solve this) and please as many as possible, including me would be to give the axethrowers bows and use axes like the Barbed/Black Arrows (or the Berserker Throwing Axes), like someone suggested earlier...

Only, who would wanna remodel and reanimate that? Pretty tough job...

[Garrison Nomad]

Indeed. You'd have to make all-new anims for the archer...or base it off the gondor archer, or whatev. But i agree, it's a pantload of work. Maybe best left for a later Beta, or the final release.

BTW, is it just me, or does everything relating to dwarves get the most controversy?

[Nazgûl]

Indeed it does... I have no idea why. A theory is that the Dwarves are the race that is LEAST shown in the movies, so we have to choose between 100% lore or not (mening make up our own things or staying as true to the books as possible). Considering where we stand with stuff to work on = perfectly modeled axethrower models, it's kinda hard to decide: "Let's rework them completely" and maybe even throw them away. I dislike removing working models unless they are 1000% off, like the SpiderRiders =p

Thus: the wild discussions...

[aragon94]

I agree with archers, and maybe the throw axe like barbed arrows.

Sooo... what about the heroes? If you need powers for them (again, support powers like leadership, nothing weird and overpowered) ask me )

[Sûlherokhh]

I agree with archers, and maybe the throw axe like barbed arrows.
...

The only thing is, we already have that. Dwarven Berserkers.