755 replies to this topic

[CIL]

Oh... thought he was... Well, I haven't read the books in a while. But you said to... oh, I thought you said enemy units... A good reason to never read overly fast.

Edited by Crazy Intellectual Liberal, 18 June 2008 - 05:16 AM.

[Myrdin]

id be really happy if you fix the " Hero Leadership " that Hama provides ( or other " new " early game hero ), becouse it aint workiíng ( you reach the lvl, and the spell wont be activated, it still keeps saying you need lvl 7 or what even if you got already 10 ) sigh
coz it really DOES sound cool, a good reason to get Hama, - to buff all other heroes.

[Scryer]

Hehe...I've ranted about theoden and some other rohan heroes too, and rob's listened

Eomer is now 1500

Theoden I think got a buff...anyway, GC is still at lvl 4 I think, but that might be changed...and rob's giving him a new passive power at a certain level that makes all surrounding units go berzerk when he dies.

That's just awesome. I am so glad to hear about the buff and the new possible power.

Some quick questions: Will Eomer get a late-game power? I know that he's an early-game hero and all but he lasts right until the end of the game. And lastly, have you heard anything about Eowyn? <She's another huge disappointment for me...

I know that your focus is not on Rohan so I won't blame you at all for not having the answers to this.

[Devon]

Rohan is my chosen ranting faction Idk about other heroes...but I've pointed out rather loudly their defects

Don't think Eomer needs a late game power tbh...he's a perfect cav support/spearhead hero, with his outlaw and horse leadership. Maybe a buff on spear throw, but that's about all I can think of.

[Myrdin]

yup, Eomer is good - newer found him " worthless " or something even close to that

[Scryer]

I'm not saying that he's worthless. I just thought that it would be kind of nice (but not required) if he had a late game power. BUt now that I just read that he might get an upgrade to his spear-throw, I'm changing my mind.

[Devon]

I'm just throwing around ideas...but rob seems to listen to me rather closely regarding rohan

[{IP} Aridor]

Rohan in BFME 1 was really fun. You were constantly moving the cav force.

[Devon]

That's what it's like now...easy easy crush on soldiers and archers, but it can be difficult sometimes as the ai seems to love pikes

[Devon]

Excuse the double post, but I feel like tossing some random rohan ideas around...if anyone hasn't noticed, they're my chosen faction (or would be, if I was any good with them )

For one thing...maybe we should underprice all of rohan's heroes? This is already done for, say, faramir in gondor, and I think it would suit rohan better. The logic being...rohan is basically 100% about horses and heroes. Horses are represented by the fact that rohirrim can own just about anything, but we can't exactly make their heroes better than every other hero.


So, I suggest we underprice them For randomexample...a 1500 rohan hero might be 2000 or so in any other faction.

That's all for general hero ideas...onto specifics.

As some people have mentioned, eowyn should be a hero killer. Basically what ea tried to do with the evil man cah. She can disguise as a rohirrim, then basically assasinate any early-mid game hero, and do a bunch of damage to a late game. After that, she'd be vulnderable for a couple seconds, but she'd have her shield maiden power to give her a quick armor boost. I'd put her at about 1300, slightly less than eomer, with kinda crappy health/armor to balance her out. Or not so crappy, if my underpricing idea is taken into effect

Idk what's up with erkenbrand atm, but he should also be about eomer's cost (if my idea is taken into effect ), and be mainly an infantry support hero, like aragorn in bfme1. He could give speed leadership to herald units (like urgluk in the private beta) and have some nice, cool, infantry support powers that I don't have time to think of atm I'm sure someone else will though...anyway, he'd still have a mount, but he'd be better leading forces on the ground than being just another horse trampling uruks.

No thoughts on gamling and hama...really don't use them much, so I'll leave them out for now.

Theoden, even with the new power I suggested, still needs a major price drop or buff, or GC at lvl 2 or even 1. 1700-2000 I'd say if my first idea is taken into effect, and if not, go for the buff

Eomer is fine, just needs a spear throw buff. Oh, he should be 1400 imo...I think he's 1500 atm

Forget what Merry costs, it should be 100 though Needs a bonus fighting near theoden or eowyn, not sure which though.



Onto general units...

Peasants need a purpose, beside even repairing. Thoughts are welcome here.

Swordsmen and archers seem a bit weak, maybe that's just me though.

I spear throwers...they're rohans best infantry unit

Rohirrim archers really need a buff...no point in them now. They should be the counter to those pesky pikes.

Rohirrim axemen need some purpose.

Scouts as well.

Royal guard is really not very rohanish. A bunch of cav that doesn't even ride in formation? Bleh...

Erm...maybe a new unit? Rohan Captain. I've got a lot of random ideas for this. Basically:

Either a single unit like a zerker with some minor leadership and decent combat abilities, or
A single unit that you can combine with a horde of horses to give them some better fighting capabilities.
Could autolevel the horde to level two, or just be a banner carrier for horses, replacing the upgrade. Kinda like tea's elves but only for rohan cavalry.
Could have 1-2 cool abilities...maybe even random with each unit. Gear could also be random, drawn from rohan cah parts if need be.

Idk...I think it would just contribute to the feel and uniqueness of rohan..the fact that they're all about cavalry and heroes.


Onto....pp tree!

Hobbits, lone tower, and arrow volley are really out of place...hmmmmm....

Three hunters should be made a tier three 15pp power, and replace the 25 with a mapwide buff of either all cavalry, or all heroes. Either one could be called horselords of middle earth

Anyway, for three hunters, make it a one use power that spawns aragorn, legolas, and gimli (obviously), but they have no timer, and stay until death. When they die, you can't revive them or resummon them. Lego should also have a horse mount for this power, and gimli should be able to mount with him.

If possible, make rally call draft peasants within radius.




Erm...that's all off the top of my head Maybe I'll think of more later....anyway

[/end rant]

Have fun reading!

[mike_]

Didn't so much read as skim, but I agree with most, if not all, of what you said.
Rohan really should be all about it's heroes and it's cavalry - meaning we need more of both

[Myrdin]

jesus, yoda tame yourself a bit with those smiles, didnt see such horde of them in some time lol

btw way - agreed with most.
disagree - as you said Rohan is ALL about horses - infantry must remain a piece of junk as it is now ( peasants NOT included now ).
MHH looks really weird
i like the idea of captain unit that could be attached to a cawalery battalion giving some support PASSIVE power
like - whole battalion gets +15% speed, or 25% armor bonus and soo on. I think the Captain should get the bonus he provides at random, all should be decent but it should be random soo it makes you a bit anxiuos IF the thing you want will come or will not come. He should have 2 bonuses one random ( like those mentioned before ) and one permanent which will be there no matter the randoming - could be something like " Rally Man " which would increase the respawning speed of the units after getting slayed.

But as this sounds a bit unfair i suggest - the Captain will position himself at the rear ( like Thrall Master ) and if hes slayed the batallion will scatter in fear (at the moment he dies, they run in fear -like normal fear, and get 5 minute debuff of 50% armor and dmg )

though mostly the rear unit needs to be sniped, which aint that easy when a horde of angry stampading horses runs on you. But the possibility should be always there !

[dojob]

I don't think the 'running in fear' thing is necessary because the captain then becomes a liability. The 'unfairness' u mentioned would be balanced by the price of the captain and the fact that by combining a captain to a horde, it's not gonna be able to combine with anything else.

Onto Yoda's post...

For one thing...maybe we should underprice all of rohan's heroes? This is already done for, say, faramir in gondor, and I think it would suit rohan better. The logic being...rohan is basically 100% about horses and heroes. Horses are represented by the fact that rohirrim can own just about anything, but we can't exactly make their heroes better than every other hero.

I think we can all agree that Rohan is meant for cavalry and whether you're going to make their heroes appropriately costly or a little bit less than they should be, most of them do need a price decrease.

As some people have mentioned, eowyn should be a hero killer. Basically what ea tried to do with the evil man cah. She can disguise as a rohirrim, then basically assasinate any early-mid game hero, and do a bunch of damage to a late game. After that, she'd be vulnderable for a couple seconds, but she'd have her shield maiden power to give her a quick armor boost.

Agreed on the hero-killer role in addition to these changes, I'd like it if she had leadership for peasants and yeoman scouts. As for her shieldmaiden power, it should also give her an attack buff as well, which would further help her fight enemy heroes.

Idk what's up with erkenbrand atm, but he should also be about eomer's cost (if my idea is taken into effect ), and be mainly an infantry support hero, like aragorn in bfme1. He could give speed leadership to herald units (like urgluk in the private beta) and have some nice, cool, infantry support powers that I don't have time to think of atm I'm sure someone else will though...anyway, he'd still have a mount, but he'd be better leading forces on the ground than being just another horse trampling uruks.

I like him the way he is atm, but yeah his leadership should be primarily focused on infantry and perhaps to emphasize that he's an infantry hero, he should get the ability to mount a bit later on (around lvl 4)

Eomer is fine, just needs a spear throw buff. Oh, he should be 1400 imo...I think he's 1500 atm

Forget what Merry costs, it should be 100 though Needs a bonus fighting near theoden or eowyn, not sure which though.

Agreed with both suggestions.

Peasants need a purpose, beside even repairing. Thoughts are welcome here.

Perhaps 1 of the 10pp powers can be replaced by a power that makes all ur farms create a free horde of drafted peasants? Also, as was mentioned, draft needs a price decrease to around 250 resources or if your rallying call suggestion is used, then draft should just be removed.

Swordsmen and archers seem a bit weak, maybe that's just me though.

I agree, a SMALL buff would definitely be nice, at least to the archers. These units are basically there to hold off the enemy until u can upgrade your barracks/archery range to lvl2 to get units that don't suck as bad, which is done by getting more of those crappy hordes. They should be rather weak compared to every1 elses' basic infantry (I like the fact that they cost 50 more, as well) because it isn't long before Rohan can whip out 2nd tier infantry, including Elves.

I spear throwers...they're rohans best infantry unit

Right after the Elves, imo

Rohirrim archers really need a buff...no point in them now. They should be the counter to those pesky pikes.

IIRC, in the most recent beta, they have amazing range, but yeah it would be cool if they had a knockback effect on enemy infantry.

Rohirrim axemen need some purpose.

Scouts as well.

Here's an idea: decrease the price of scouts to 250-300 resources and then give them the option to upgrade into a horde of Rohirrim axmen for 350 resources, providing more guys to the horde and basically making a horde of scouts into a horde of the current axmen. Ofc, the normal axmen unit would have to be removed, but I think that since both units play a scout/raider role, that they may as well just be one in the same while making an upgrade required to keep them from being a problem in the early game.

Royal guard is really not very rohanish. A bunch of cav that doesn't even ride in formation? Bleh...

Agreed, line them up and instead of having GC, they could get some other buff-based power or something.

Erm...maybe a new unit? Rohan Captain. I've got a lot of random ideas for this. Basically:

Could have 1-2 cool abilities...maybe even random with each unit. Gear could also be random, drawn from rohan cah parts if need be.

No random gear, unless the difference between them is small enough that they basically do the same thing. I want consistency, dammit!

Onto....pp tree!

lol ur SOOO enthusiastic about this

Hobbits, lone tower, and arrow volley are really out of place...hmmmmm....

Agreed with the 1st two and I already gave a suggestion for a replacement. As for the arrow volley, it's not so out of place because Rohan was probably the only faction that actually used it; Remember Helm's Deep, "Give them a volley"?

Three hunters should be made a tier three 15pp power, and replace the 25 with a mapwide buff of either all cavalry, or all heroes. Either one could be called horselords of middle earth

Anyway, for three hunters, make it a one use power that spawns aragorn, legolas, and gimli (obviously), but they have no timer, and stay until death. When they die, you can't revive them or resummon them. Lego should also have a horse mount for this power, and gimli should be able to mount with him.

Agreed

If possible, make rally call draft peasants within radius.

Yeah, let's make the draft power even more useless and overshadowed! Again, if this suggestion and my suggestion for a mass peasant spawn from the farms are taken, then draft may as well be removed.

Edited by dojob, 22 June 2008 - 03:03 PM.

[shadowcreature]

Since I sometimes use Rohan in WOTR I have noticed Gamling has low HP: 1600. Perhaps give him a health buff?
I kind if also agree of Rohirrim Axeman need a purpose. I see them as construction unit to get my stables to level 3. Why not give them Horse Shields as well?
I don't know about a Rohan captain. I think that would risk taking away the uniqueness of Arnor.
Cheap heroes? Sounds good to me. I suggest maybe as a fortress upgrade maybe?
Buff Eomer's Spear Throw I am with, maybw Eowyn's as well.
I like the Erkanbrand buff idea, I think also maybe make his sword swing faster as well.

[Scryer]

Oh, lordy Yoda ....Making me type another lengthy post....

For one thing...maybe we should underprice all of rohan's heroes? This is already done for, say, faramir in gondor, and I think it would suit rohan better. The logic being...rohan is basically 100% about horses and heroes. Horses are represented by the fact that rohirrim can own just about anything, but we can't exactly make their heroes better than every other hero

The strong point of Rohan, in this mod, is heroes and calvary. I think that the current public beta cripples that because of the prices. So I definitely shine a green light for this. Plus this makes sense because most factions start out with access to their "focus" whereas with Rohan, you have to play a lot more to get it going. Except Radagast, his price should just stay the same in my opinion because he is the most damaging hero.

I would keep Theoden at a 2000 price because I would rather see a buff to him and get him more in the late-game. I think that his GC should increase in Range as he levels. His leadership should be awesome plus that power (that Rob and you threw around) that when he dies, he makes other Rohirrim go crazy should be added in. I also think that he should get a fear generating ability. <I would pay more resources if that was implemented. Like 2300...

Also I think that Gamling and Hama should cost like 900-1100. I don't think that that would be right though.... I think Hama should only be a "Campaign Hero" to be very honest with you.

As some people have mentioned, eowyn should be a hero killer. Basically what ea tried to do with the evil man cah. She can disguise as a rohirrim, then basically assasinate any early-mid game hero, and do a bunch of damage to a late game. After that, she'd be vulnderable for a couple seconds, but she'd have her shield maiden power to give her a quick armor boost

I believe that this was our idea (don't you just love sharing? ). I've really been pushing for this. And I second what Dojob said. I am also going to mention that her disguise power should actually make her look more like one of the Rohirrim than it currently does. Also she shouldn't be removing her disguise when she's throwing a spear or activating her "shieldmaiden" power. I think that the only power that should take Eowyn out of her disguise is her hero strike. I would almost suggest to give her a passive ability that makes her invisible when she's near other riders, but that could make her a little OP for her price(?).

Idk what's up with erkenbrand atm, but he should also be about eomer's cost (if my idea is taken into effect ), and be mainly an infantry support hero, like aragorn in bfme1. He could give speed leadership to herald units (like urgluk in the private beta) and have some nice, cool, infantry support powers that I don't have time to think of atm I'm sure someone else will though...anyway, he'd still have a mount, but he'd be better leading forces on the ground than being just another horse trampling uruks.

Unlike Dojob, I hate Erkenbrand's current power set because it is so much better than Eomer's. Even his leadership ability is better than Eomer's. This shouldn't be the case because of lore. Yeah, I don't feel like elaborating on Lore right now. I agree with what's in the quote tags by the way.

Eomer is fine, just needs a spear throw buff. Oh, he should be 1400 imo...I think he's 1500 atm

Forget what Merry costs, it should be 100 though Needs a bonus fighting near theoden or eowyn, not sure which though.

Agreed. I suggested powers for Merry a long time ago.... I could bring it up again in this thread if you want? Lastly, he needs something to keep up with the rest of the Rohirrim. Maybe he could mount with Eowyn... But then he'd have to be pretty un-noticable (meaning that he blends in with her) because of the whole Disguise thing. With Eowyn, Disguise should give her an edge so in my opinion, Merry can't hinder that.

Swordsmen and archers seem a bit weak, maybe that's just me though.

I kind of agree with a buff but then again Rohan's focus isn't on infantry units.

Rohirrim archers really need a buff...no point in them now. They should be the counter to those pesky pikes

I'm not going to lie, I only used Rohirrim Archers to keep up with the rest of my units. A buff would be most welcome.

Rohirrim axemen need some purpose.

Scouts as well

I'm going to have to second Dojob's idea on this one. Maybe Eowyn's leadership could be changed to complement axemen as well (if Dojob's idea was implemented)?

Royal guard is really not very rohanish. A bunch of cav that doesn't even ride in formation? Bleh...

Erm...maybe a new unit? Rohan Captain. I've got a lot of random ideas for this. Basically:

Could have 1-2 cool abilities...maybe even random with each unit. Gear could also be random, drawn from rohan cah parts if need be.

After you fix the Royal Guard to make them more Rohirri, couldn't you just give them 1-2 cool abilities and get the same effect?

Three hunters should be made a tier three 15pp power, and replace the 25 with a mapwide buff of either all cavalry, or all heroes. Either one could be called horselords of middle earth

Anyway, for three hunters, make it a one use power that spawns aragorn, legolas, and gimli (obviously), but they have no timer, and stay until death. When they die, you can't revive them or resummon them. Lego should also have a horse mount for this power, and gimli should be able to mount with him.

I would have to say that it should be an "All Heroes" power that replaces the 25pp slot because if Isengard gets something like that for Units, I think that it would be more original to do this for Rohan. Were you thinking of making it a passive power?

I'm okay with everything else you said about the power as well. You and I have very similar ideas for Rohan. But wouldn't most of Legolas' powers be hindered or would he be using a bow on horseback?

Edited by Scryer, 23 June 2008 - 12:51 AM.

[njm1983]

I personally dis-like the 3 hunters power, mostly because I dont like having the same heroes in multiple factions, something more rohan like would be cool, like "Muster the Rohirrim" that operates like the call the horde for bfme 1. allowing rohan players to build rohirrim really fast. I think a low level power like that would be cool for peasants also. Rohan strikes me as being able to mobilize its forces quickly when need be.

The royal guard could play the role of a zerker: a single unit able to mount or be on foot. works well for escorting heros, like a personal guard would do. I would think there would only be a handfull of these guys anyway so being a horde makes no sense.

thats just my ten cents.

[tylerman29]

they already is that power lolz...

[Myrdin]

it should be changed to 25pp, 3 hunters to 15 pp.
as for the muster the rohirrim - since it would be 25 it should affect ALL units being currently trained not just ( and only ) Rohirrim

[njm1983]

Well if it was going to be for all units then maybe call it "the muster of rohan" that kinda umbrellas all the units instead of a single type.

[dojob]

it should be changed to 25pp, 3 hunters to 15 pp.
as for the muster the rohirrim - since it would be 25 it should affect ALL units being currently trained not just ( and only ) Rohirrim

Then they'd have to come out at a 'call-the-horde'-like rate or else it wouldn't be worth 25pps. Even then, a mass production doesn't suit Rohan as their ultimate power anyway, but where it is atm is fine.