755 replies to this topic

[Devon]

Oh god Don't let anyone I've played hear that. They might cut your head off or something.


Rohirrim are borderline op at the moment, they're definitely the best cavalry in game.

[Neth]

Except for the extremely OP knight things in Arnor

Edited by Nethelen Narcu, 10 May 2009 - 02:31 PM.

[Wanderer∞]

Just imagine if the the Knights of Arnor could be ugraded the same way the rohirrim could

[Neth]

I don't even want to. But the rule "No M.H.H" fixes that

[Dalf32]

aye uruk, sounds like you need to play yoda's rohan. its quite clear that you havnt yet, so you should get on that

[Scryer]

I got me one of those hero ideas again...

So this one kind of came from the fact that the ents have a huge weakness to fire.


Treebeard:

- Rock Throw/Melee toggle

- Leadership: Same as before.

- Ent Water: Heals targeted units and increases their vision by 30%.

- Fangorn Mist: A temporary large targeted area of effect power. After the power has been used on the target area; Any units within that target area receive less damage from fire-based attacks and they become less flammable.


And this one is just to cram it down our team's throats that Eowyn sucks .


*Eowyn:

- Level 1, Mount

- Level (?), Smite: Same as before.

- Level 4(?), Disguise: Something needs to change here. I'm not sure what it is but as of right now, Eowyn sticks out a little too much. In my opinion two things can be done: 1. Reskin some of the rohirrim units so that some of the riders have white horses. (Iirc, Eowyn and Theoden only have white horses)
2. Change the colour of Eowyn's horse.

As of now, I think that the problem is that Eowyn has a white horse while all of the Rohirrim have brown horses. It makes her stick out .

Another problem with disguise is that each time Eowyn uses Shieldmaiden or Smite, it takes her out of disguise. This allows units to attack her while she's still transforming into her un-disguised form. This is a severe disadvantage as it causes her to remain still for a good 5 seconds (depending on lag). So I think that this could be changed for some powers. And each time Eowyn mounts/dismounts, it also takes her out of disguise.

- Level 6(?), Shieldmaiden: Same as before. Maybe the percentage could increase a little with each level?

-Level 8, Redemptious Strike: A very powerful single-target melee attack. Eowyn has to be un-mounted in order to use this attack. This attack will also take Eowyn out of disguise after she uses it. Redemptious Strike is mean't to be a hero killing power. It is super effective against all Nazguls and causes major damage to larger monsters.


*Eowyn's stats also lack a little bit. From what I remember, her attack is barely better than Theoden's and that is saying something.

One thing that we really have to consider with Eowyn is her purpose in the Rohan hero-tree. I strongly think that she should be the mounted/melee hero hunter. We don't really have someone strong in melee damage since the Three Hunters got moved, so I think that Eowyn can have a melee-specialist role.

This is where her stats come into play. Her defence sucks like Theoden's defence. I think that Eowyn can get a little bit of a defence boost (maybe up like 15% more?) since she has the Shieldmaiden power.

Now Eowyn's attack should definitely get an increase. I'm thinking that it should be made to almost be equal to Eomer's. The reason for this is because she is known as a good fighter and she needs something to work with .

Keep in mind that I have not played the mod in the longest time. The last time I played a BFME was BFME1 Minas Tirith. That was definitely not the mod, so my judgements for Eowyn could be off. I'll be re-playing Helm's Deep (RJ) sometime tonight, so some of what I said could get that strikethrough code .

Edited by Scryer, 25 May 2009 - 07:54 PM.

[Uruk King]

Good ideas, but I think it strays too far away from the role Eowyn serves as an early game hero, her attack and abilities could deal some extra damage to the Nazgul, perhaps she could provide a leadership bonus to Peasants and have an aility called: Friend of Meriadoc (lvl 6) (grants Merry +50% Damage, +50% Armor when he is near her). Also could Merry and Hama receive mounts as well, Hama on a brown horse, and Merry on the the little white pony Stybba.

[Scryer]

Good ideas, but I think it strays too far away from the role Eowyn serves as an early game hero

Please describe me this role in detail. Right now all I see is a unit that has a mediocre spearthrow, a useless disguise, and a defence boost that might be bugged and not working properly . She has no specific purpose right now.

Besides Gamling, Hama, Merry, and Eomer are already early-game heroes and fill specific roles. Rohan's current mid-game heroes are Theoden (Leave it alone guys, I know that this is arguable) and Erkenbrand. Eowyn will not make a good late game hero, but she'd be a fine mid-game hero.

her attack and abilities could deal some extra damage to the Nazgul,

Just two abilities (being smite and a powerful melee) that are super effective against nazgul should suffice. I don't want her regular attacks to be effective against nazgul because it would be a little OP.

perhaps she could provide a leadership bonus to Peasants and have an aility called: Friend of Meriadoc (lvl 6) (grants Merry +50% Damage, +50% Armor when he is near her).

Erkenbrand already has a leadership that supports infantry and Gamling/Hama both have leaderships that buff up other heroes.

This is why I would rather see Eowyn become the "Lurtz" (for lack of a better word ) of the faction. Rohan has a bunch of army supporters/buffers (Theoden, Eomer, Erkenbrand), hero supporters (Gamling and Hama), a hobbit hero, and a wizard. The one type of hero that is missing from Rohan is a melee-dedicated-damage-dealer. Eowyn can fit this role because of the lore.

Also could Merry and Hama receive mounts as well, Hama on a brown horse, and Merry on the the little white pony Stybba.

I agree. We need to find some way to have these guys keep up with the rest of the army.

Edited by Scryer, 26 May 2009 - 02:49 AM.

[Uruk King]

1st Point; Her Smite ability could gain some extra damage points to make it more effective, and her Disguise can increase her armour. The fact of the matter is she used to be amazing in the 1st BFME, then in the second one she became really poor and redundant.

2nd point, I suppose you're right, and the melee strike you suggested earlier might do the trick for that.

3rd point, there are no early-game leaders for Rohan infantry, and we know that Eowyn lead the peasants during the seige of Helm's Deep, and Erkenbrand's bloody leadership is too late game to avail you. I also object to Hama and Gamling being hero supporters because they weren't, at least not to all of the heroes, certainly to Theoden, but not Merry, Eomer and Eowyn, at least that's what I think.

4th point, thank you

[Dalf32]

eowyn may not fill a specific role atm, but she should be an early-game hero, so we need to make sure that whatever changes we want to be made should keep her in that role imo.

[{IRS}Athos]

Merry and Hama definitely need mounts. Perhaps Merry and Pippin should have some sort of melee attacks, too: perhaps Pippin could have an anti-monster "Troll's Bane" attack at Lv. 6-10, and Merry could have Backstab/Slice Tendons, since he stabs the Witch-king in the back of the knee so Eowyn can kill him.

[Scryer]

3rd point, there are no early-game leaders for Rohan infantry, and we know that Eowyn lead the peasants during the seige of Helm's Deep, and Erkenbrand's bloody leadership is too late game to avail you

Agree... I obviously was not looking at the level Erkenbrand gets the leadership at .

eowyn may not fill a specific role atm, but she should be an early-game hero, so we need to make sure that whatever changes we want to be made should keep her in that role imo.

Have any ideas on this?

Just for brainstorming purposes; the first thing that comes to my mind is giving her a crappy leadership (like +25% to speed and vision) to Rohan infantry at rank 1 and moving her Smite to rank 3 or something . Then again, my ideas usually end up loading up heroes with powers..

1st Point; Her Smite ability could gain some extra damage points to make it more effective, and her Disguise can increase her armour.

I agree with smite. But I think its damage could use a small increase each level. Kind of like what I described before for her Shieldmaiden power.

I'm not so keen on the Disguise giving her a boost... Maybe, but I'm not keen on it. I mean she does have her shieldmaiden power for that armour boost...

The fact of the matter is she used to be amazing in the 1st BFME,

Okay, my experience has been pretty much the opposite of this. I've played Helm's Deep and Minas Tirith on BFME 1 this last weekend, and I have had to babysit Eowyn just as much as I have to babysit Theoden during those battles. I could not leave them alone because they would do the dumbest shit when I wasn't looking. Might be just poor micromanagement, but Eowyn had trouble taking on 2 battalions of orc warriors at rank 8.

I also object to Hama and Gamling being hero supporters because they weren't, at least not to all of the heroes, certainly to Theoden, but not Merry, Eomer and Eowyn, at least that's what I think.

But the fact is is that Hama and Gamling do have leaderships that affect all of Rohan's nearby heroes. I'm not sure if the coders can code certain heroes to be affected by a leadership. Nor do I think that the team wants this aspect of Rohan's heroes changed....

[Neth]

My ideas on how it should be:
Early game heros - Merry, Gamling, Hama, Eowyn(Anyone noticed how hard that is to spell? )
Mid game heros - Eomer, Erkenbrand
Late game heros - Theoden (Due to his experiance in war), Radagast
Comment Please

[Ring o' Fate]

A: Yes, I've noticed how hard it is to spell Eowyn's name.
B: I personally thing Hama or Gamling (perferably Gamling) would be a midgame hero.
C: And don't forget that Theoden is King of Rohan.
And D: Eowyn does indeed need a bit of a boost spell power wise.

[Uruk King]

My ideas on how it should be:
Early game heros - Merry, Gamling, Hama, Eowyn(Anyone noticed how hard that is to spell? )
Mid game heros - Eomer, Erkenbrand
Late game heros - Theoden (Due to his experiance in war), Radagast
Comment Please

I fully agree with the statement.

[Hasfusel]

Hmmm. I'm inclined to agree with Scryer.

Does Eowyn really need Smite plus this super melée attack thing? I'd say improve Smite at Lvl.8 to make it actually effective. That is, powerful enough to kill most monsters in one hit, and completely smash Nazgul, killing them if they're a lower level than she is and seriously hurting them if they're stronger.
Her Disguise power is completely useless. Maybe it could do something else small? Perhaps she could stealth amongst other Rohirrim, or gain a small defensive boost.
I think Eowyn should be a melée specialist, speeding her attacks up at Lvl.5 and again at Lvl.10, where she gains splash damage (I think Arwen deserves the same, as her fighting skills are awful right now. Arwen's possibly the worst hero in the game short of Snaga, but that's another matter).

Yeah, he's King of Rohan, but let's face it; the only reason anyone gets him is for his leadership powers, namely Leadership, King's Favor and Glorious Charge. Perhaps he could get a Last Stand power that gives him enough of a boost to make him actually effective in combat, especially against monsters and other heroes. Last Stand is just a name, all I mean is for this to be an ordinary boosting power like Blademaster.

Also, why would Gamling be an early game hero? He's as much a veteran as Erkenbrand or Eomer, who needs a rehaul as well but for now serves as an early game hero.

Edited by Hasfusel, 01 June 2009 - 12:38 PM.

[Devon]

Yeah, he's King of Rohan, but let's face it; the only reason anyone gets him is for his leadership powers, namely Leadership, King's Favor and Glorious Charge. Perhaps he could get a Last Stand power that gives him enough of a boost to make him actually effective in combat, especially against monsters and other heroes. Last Stand is just a name, all I mean is for this to be an ordinary boosting power like Blademaster.

When he dies, he sets off a Glorious charge type thing that gives all nearby rohan horsed allies super damage.

[Hasfusel]

That's a neat little effect, but I don't think it's enough to set him up as a late game hero. To be a late game hero, you need awesome combat/magic abilities. Does this effect make the Rohirrim unselectable for awhile? I think I heard that somewhere.

Remember my idea about morale when heroes died? You get a ten-second boost or drop to all units within a radius of the hero. I think it worked out something like this;

Killing any enemy hero gives you a positive boost to attack and damage, increasing the stronger the hero was.
If one of your heroes is killed...
If a charismatic, leader heroes such as Theoden, Dain, Gorkil, Elrond, Boromir etc. dies, nearby units would rally and fly into a rage, seeking to destroy the killers of their hero.
If your Hobbit hero dies (see my post in the Hobbits section), Good units would rally and fly into a rage, angry that someone so weak was killed, Evil units would not care and gain no boost for this.
For all heroes in between, nearby units would suffer morale drops because obviously their leader has been killed which can't bode well.
If great, powerful heroes such as Saruman, Gandalf, Sauron, the flying Goblin Dragon (can't remember his name), Galadriel etc. die, units suffer massive drops to their morale because such a mighty hero was taken down by the enemy, who must be incredibly powerful to accomplish something like that. They also suffer Fear effects.
What do you think? It gives added importance to killing enemy heroes and protect your own.

[Haldir74]

Hasfusel
the flying Goblin Dragon (can't remember his name)

His name is Drogoth. I agree with you about the morale thing, except for the hobbit part. Also if the enemy kills a normal hero, then I feel as though they should gain a bonus increasing their damage and armor. Plus when a powerful hero dies, aka Boromir, Aragorn, Theoden, I feel like the team with the hero that died have their damage go up drastically, however their armor go down. Because when you hate someone a lot, you go more on the offensive and don't nearly defend as much. Lastly when a hero kills another hero, ie Lurtz kills Boromir, then the armies of Gondor, in this case, hate Lurtz and gain a huge increase in damage towards him until he dies.

Haldir74

Edited by Haldir74, 02 June 2009 - 07:38 PM.

[Hasfusel]

That's perhaps slightly too complicated, although I said if you kill an enemy hero then your units around the killer and the hero gain a boost, while their units around the killers and the hero are debuffed. However, each faction will have a Super-Hero (Gandalf, Drogoth, Saruman, WitchKing, etc.) who cause massive boosts/drops because of their awesome power, and a Leader Hero (Theoden, Boromir, etc.) who causes the victim's units to rally at their deaths. Rohan, Gondor and MotE, being fiercely loyal to their leaders, have two Leader Heroes (Theoden & Eomer, Boromir & Faramir, Harad Chief & Easterling Chief). This should make things less confusing.

Normal Heroes- (all heroes not mentioned
Impact of death on surrounding units of own faction- 80% chances of debuff (weakened armor, speed and damage for about 10-15 seconds).
Impact of death on surrounding units of killer's faction- 100% chances of small rally (small boost to armor, speed, damage for about 10-15 seconds)

Super Heroes (Gandalf, Aragorn, Saruman, Sauron, Drogoth, Witch-King, Galadriel, Roméstamo, Morihentar, Radagast, Beorn, Glorfindel)
Impact of death on surrounding units of own faction- 75% chances of massive debuff (greatly weakened armor, speed and damage for about 10-15 seconds) and flee/cower in fear, 25% chances of avenging rage (great boost to armor, speed, damage and go uncontrollably berserk on surrounding enemies for about 10-15 seconds)
Impact of death on surrounding units of killer's faction- 100% chances of massive rally (great boost to armor, speed, damage for about 10-15 seconds)

Leader Heroes- (Boromir, Faramir, Theoden, Eomer, Imrahil, Goblin King, Lurtz, Gothmog, Treebeard, Haldir, Elrond, Mahud Chief, Easterling Captain)
Impact of death on surrounding units of own faction- 75% chances of avenging rage (great boost to armor, speed, damage and go uncontrollably berserk on surrounding enemies for about 10-15 seconds), 25% chances of debuff (weakened armor, speed and damage for about 10-15 seconds).
Impact of death on surrounding units of killer's faction- 100% chances of good rally (good boost to armor, speed, damage for about 10-15 seconds)