1712 replies to this topic

[Captain of Arnor]

You wouldn't really have to change the skins for the soldiers either. You would have to make a whole new faction though, yeah...but these guys have totally blown what I thought possible in modding out of the water. So I'm sure given enough time, they could do it perfectly.

[{IRS}Athos]

Yeah, they are pretty much amazing. As for creating heroes exclusively for the inn... if I have my way, there'll be a lot of that in the polishing phase. *rubs hands*

[Eärendur]

In regards to the Steelbowmen, why not replace the "Arnor" royal knights thith some other elite unit (maybe an elite pikeman unit), and make the Steelbowmen an elite siege unit. I mean, high damage, low accuracy, slow reload time, all of which are the basic properties of a siege unit. So they could be an elite siege unit (2 battalions max) comprised of three to five units, with a very very slight increase to their accuracy compared to, say, an Isenguard Ballista. And their skins could be (maybe) slightly enlarged Dark Rangers.

Sory if I'm repeating myself

Edited by Arnorite, 21 March 2009 - 07:25 PM.

[Eärendur]

That is true. If you remove the Hobbits (they're of no real use to anybody), move the Elves to the Inn, then you can then have a Cardolan Allies instead of the Elven Allies, and maybe a Rhudaur Loyalists Alliance instead of the Dunedain Allies, and put the some of the Dunedain Rangers and Dunedain Mounted Ranges in somewhere else within the faction.

[Eärendur]

I'm not sure about what the books say, but at least in the Angmar Campaign in RotWK you have to fight off Rhudaur loyalists in the "Conquest of Rhudaur" mission.
But I agree with you in the fact that if Elves stay within the faction and are not sent to the Inn System, then they should have a tent as a building instead of an actual building.

Edited by Arnorite, 21 March 2009 - 08:30 PM.

[Captain of Arnor]

The Elves dwelt in Eregion, near Cardolan. And Rhudaur was quite near Rivendell. Then you've got Arthedain, which was a stones throw away from the Grey Havens. I'd definitely say the Elvish building belongs in Arnor. While there weren't Elvish buildings in Bree or in Fornost, I'm sure there were settlements of Elves throughout the area. So I don't have a problem with the Elvish building, personally.

Arnorite, you're also mistaken on Rhudaur. There were no loyalists from Rhudaur who fought with Arnor. The hill-men of Rhudaur greatly feared the Witch-king of Angmar, believing he could change the weather at his will, call down great evils upon whole civilizations, spread plagues, raise the dead (wights) to infest the lands and homes of Men. So the hill-men, being superstitious and primitive compared to the rest of Arnor, fell VERY quickly under the sway of the Witch-king and would've had no doubts whatsoever about whos side they were fighting on. The hill-men you fought in the campaign was the Witch-king forcing them under his rule, I believe. But there were, naturally, some settlements of Numenoreans in Rhudaur. When those were killed, nothing kept the Witch-king from unifying the hill-men under his banner.

He had a whole army of barbarians to fight for him, basically cannon-fodder he could throw against the walls of Arnor without worries about loss.

I was wondering also about an inn system with Arnor, and thought that Gondor and the Elves would both make great additions. But the problem with this is the heroes. People would want Elrond, Cirdan and Glorfindel (when they re-add him to Arnor) moved to the Inn for the Elves. Those heroes all fought with Arnor, at almost all times, and should remain there - not in the inn. Know what I mean? With Gondor, it'd be good, have Earnur and maybe make a Gondorian Captain as heroes for them. I'm not so sure about the Elves though.

Edited by Lord_Faramir, 21 March 2009 - 09:36 PM.

[Eärendur]

The Elves dwelt in Eregion, near Cardolan. And Rhudaur was quite near Rivendell. Then you've got Arthedain, which was a stones throw away from the Grey Havens. I'd definitely say the Elvish building belongs in Arnor. While there weren't Elvish buildings in Bree or in Fornost, I'm sure there were settlements of Elves throughout the area. So I don't have a problem with the Elvish building, personally.

Arnorite, you're also mistaken on Rhudaur. There were no loyalists from Rhudaur who fought with Arnor. The hill-men of Rhudaur greatly feared the Witch-king of Angmar, believing he could change the weather at his will, call down great evils upon whole civilizations, spread plagues, raise the dead (wights) to infest the lands and homes of Men. So the hill-men, being superstitious and primitive compared to the rest of Arnor, fell VERY quickly under the sway of the Witch-king and would've had no doubts whatsoever about whos side they were fighting on. The hill-men you fought in the campaign was the Witch-king forcing them under his rule, I believe. But there were, naturally, some settlements of Numenoreans in Rhudaur. When those were killed, nothing kept the Witch-king from unifying the hill-men under his banner.

He had a whole army of barbarians to fight for him, basically cannon-fodder he could throw against the walls of Arnor without worries about loss.

I was wondering also about an inn system with Arnor, and thought that Gondor and the Elves would both make great additions. But the problem with this is the heroes. People would want Elrond, Cirdan and Glorfindel (when they re-add him to Arnor) moved to the Inn for the Elves. Those heroes all fought with Arnor, at almost all times, and should remain there - not in the inn. Know what I mean? With Gondor, it'd be good, have Earnur and maybe make a Gondorian Captain as heroes for them. I'm not so sure about the Elves though.

O.K. fine, so Rhudaur Loyalists is a bad idea . So how about Lossoth? They weren't exactly Dunedain, but they did help Arvedui after he fled from Fornost.

And as to the whole Inn thing. Even if Elves are at the Inn, I don't think that it would mean that Glorfindel and Elrond would have to be in the Inn (they did help Arnor out a lot, as you said). But as for Cirdan, what exactly did he do other than send ships to Forochel to help Arvedui?

Edited by Arnorite, 21 March 2009 - 10:17 PM.

[Wanderer∞]

And the steel bowman as siege wouldn't work. Arrows vs buildings and the building stay for a looooong time. We're talking about arrows here not ballista missiles.

[Eärendur]

Just a suggestion...

[Dunedain Lord]

That is true. If you remove the Hobbits (they're of no real use to anybody), move the Elves to the Inn, then you can then have a Cardolan Allies instead of the Elven Allies, and maybe a Rhudaur Loyalists Alliance instead of the Dunedain Allies, and put the some of the Dunedain Rangers and Dunedain Mounted Ranges in somewhere else within the faction.

Arnorite, hobbits are of no use?
In the early game, hobbit pitchforks are an ideal source of pikes that could prevent cavalry.
They are not useless and hobbits should not be removed.
And hobbits are not crappy, the rock-throwers can kill like heck.
And the hobbits themselves can make up their own army of pikes and rocks.
Hobbits do not suck and they should still stay.
And I highly disagree with new alliances. The Dunedain could be removed but Rhudaur? No.
Rhudaur destroyed all of the loyalists that resided in their quickly, and anyway, they were not fighters as ferocious as the hillmen.
And Cardolan, they kinda became Arthedain's population after they fled from their land after the Great Plague. And there were not many soldiers there
because the witch king had already killed most of them all.
Why change it at all? Arnor is beloved the way it is for alliances, but not for units...........Arnor needs more men, that's all it kind of needs.
And for the Steelbowmen, who the heck would be considered a siege unit that fires ................ arrows.
The trebuchets do fine as siege units. When the archers accuracy is lowered so that not every arrow hits, the steelbowmen would have that handicap too,
thus making them an ideal archer elite hero unit.
And hobbits, again, should not be removed. I am pretty sure (correct me if I am wrong) that they helped in some battles of themselves that were small
but contained the hobbits fighting the evil men of bree.

[Captain of Arnor]

Arnorite, thats not to at all discount your idea, I'm just trying to tell you why people wouldn't want it in. Its a good idea to me, but its just not at all canon. XD The Lossoth, really, did very little during the destruction of Arnor. They, like the hill-men of Rhudaur, were also afraid of the Witch-king of Angmar, claiming that he could make the snows come or go, or the ice thaw, at his will. They weren't under his dominion, however - they pledged their allegiance to no one but themselves. They were too afraid and weak to oppose Angmar but far too weak for him to take notice of them.

They only helped Arvedui Last-King out of pity, and because they knew that the Ring of Barahir would be ransomed for great worth to the other Dunedain Lords one day. I don't see them playing an important role in the mod.

And Cirdan played a very important role against Angmar. He helped King Araphor fight Angmar during the Fall of Rhudaur, after Weathertop was destroyed. Araphor drove the Witch-kings armies back from Fornost to the North Downs with Cirdans help. Granted, this was quite early in the war (only after the conquest of Rhudaur, immediately after Angmar invaded Arnor) and he didn't help Men again until he tried to save Arvedui Last-King, but that doesn't matter - him helping drive the enemies away from Fornost was vital in the defenses.

And I'll add this edit. I also agree that hobbits should be removed and replaced with cavalry units, and a cavalry building. The only report of hobbits ever helping in the war was in the final battle for Fornost (they claimed to have sent a small number of archers to the battle), but only the hobbits said they did that and it wasn't recorded anywhere else. They were only required to acknowledge the rule of the Kings of Arnor, and weren't required to pay tribute in resources or military power. They don't belong in the mod at all.

Edited by Lord_Faramir, 21 March 2009 - 10:59 PM.

[Eärendur]

O.K. O.K.!!!!!!
So Rhudaur Loyalists and Steelbowmen as siege units were bad ideas! I officially rescind them.

But if you add Arnorian Pikemen of some sort and cavalry (maybe with spear/bow toggle) then you really D.O. N.O.T. N.E.E.D. Hobbits.

[dojob]

Meh, just add steel bowmen and have them replace Arnor knights as their mhh. If you limit them to 1 horde but make them GODLY, then I don't think it would conflict with the Elves since it's not like Arnor Knights take away from Rohan even though they're incredible.

And Arnor already has 3 pike units, they don't need anymore imo. As for adding cavalry, that may make them a bit similar to Gondor...

Edited by dojob, 21 March 2009 - 11:08 PM.

[CIL]

Steel bows were destroyed with Arnor.

Edited by CIL, 23 March 2009 - 04:21 AM.

[Captain of Arnor]

Arnor?.. Like Gondor? You're forgetting I hope, but Arnor and Gondor are pretty much one in the same. They're the same people, same race, same kind of government. Only with different histories and locations, and different regions. They're all Numenoreans. I think of Arnor, in the game, as more of an extension to Gondor anyways. Like, a second choice I guess you could say. And how would only adding cavalry make them like Gondor..? Its just mounted units. They need some anyways. All of the forces of Good have cavalry except for Arnor.

[{IRS}Athos]

@ CIL: Steelbows destroyed with Numenor? No offense, but you have no idea what you're talking about. Tolkien explicitly stated in Unfinished Tales, the Disaster of the Gladden Fields, that Isildur had forty steelbow archers with him, and that was only a small percentage of his force.

[Captain of Arnor]

Aye, Ithillenranger is right. Isildur had at least two hundred men with him. His two sons, a few knights, some foot soldiers and archers using steel bows.