1712 replies to this topic

[Wanderer∞]

And even with the steel bows, most were killed

[Captain of Arnor]

Most, heh. Only three got out alive. One of which, Isildurs herald I think it was, bore the Shards of Narsil back to Rivendell. Isildur and his three sons died in the battle.

Anyways. In 66 pages, what are the things that're going to happen for Arnor so far? I'm both curious and quite lazy. (Which means I want to know but I don't want to go check through hundreds of comments to see what people said YAY and NAY to.) :D

Edited by Captain of Arnor, 22 March 2009 - 07:22 PM.

[Dalf32]

Arnor?.. Like Gondor? You're forgetting I hope, but Arnor and Gondor are pretty much one in the same. They're the same people, same race, same kind of government. Only with different histories and locations, and different regions. They're all Numenoreans. I think of Arnor, in the game, as more of an extension to Gondor anyways. Like, a second choice I guess you could say. And how would only adding cavalry make them like Gondor..? Its just mounted units. They need some anyways. All of the forces of Good have cavalry except for Arnor.

part of the reason arnor has as many alliances as it does (hobbits, elves, and dunedain) is to make sure that arnor didnt end up being a gondor copy. that was the biggest reason that ea had for leaving arnor out, but we thought we could do something a little different to get arnor in and still be unique.
and perhaps we should be looking at arnor's lack of cavalry as something that forces a different strategy, rather than something that needs to be fixed. if every faction had the same units, just with different names and skins, the game would be very very dull.

[mike_]

Isildur's company/bodyguard consisted of two hundred Men of Arnor with only a score of archers (as the need was not expected). Three Men only got out alive - Isildur's esquire, Ohtar, as well as Ohtar's companion, and a young esquire who was knocked unconcious and buried under his dead fellows.

Nasty business, that.

[Captain of Arnor]

Alright, say we leave the idea of cavalry out. Theres still the problem with the hobbits, who I don't think belong in Arnor. Like I said before, the only time hobbits were said to go into battle with Arnor was during the Battle of Fornost, and that was just a few hobbit Archers. And only the hobbits recorded this, leaving it open for debate / doubt.

I think hobbits should be removed and replaced with something else. Don't know what, we could talk about that.

I had the idea that maybe instead of giving Arnor the Gondor inn faction, we could do a signal beacon, like what the Elves have now, installed into the fortress, or a fortress expansion even, or replace the hobbit house with the it. Basically, when you buy the beacon (or build it) it lights.

It takes a few minutes for it to call Gondor, to keep the whole thing realistic, but when it finishes and the signal is done, you unlock a building that replaces the beacon in the build-list, that lets you recruit Gondorian archers and swordsmen, maybe knights and Guardians of the Fountain Court. You also unlock a hero (who can ONLY be used with Arnor after this result is met), Earnur.

Also, into the building, you could make a separate tier of upgrades for the Gondorian units. Heavy armor, flaming arrows, horse shields, forged blades, all that fun stuff. So its like a mobile Gondorian-unit command center, sorta. The building could even be a collection of white tents. That would be awesome, to me. Level it up to three to unlock the forge / blacksmith, but when you level the building up to three to get to the blacksmith, it has all of the upgrades immediately selectable.

If the beacon is destroyed, the call is broken and you have to remake the beacon for it to begin again, and it starts all over. But if the beacon has already completed the call and then is destroyed, nothing happens except for you lose the beacon. Because the calls already went out. Debate? y/n, maybe? I think its a neat idea, personally.

Edited by Captain of Arnor, 22 March 2009 - 10:52 PM.

[Devon]

Too many units.

[Captain of Arnor]

Thats why you take the hobbits out and add these instead. Lose the stupid hobbits, I personally say, they're useless even as early game infantry (I've never even made the hobbit building once. I make two barracks first thing into the game and pump out six swordsmen units and four archer units, then combine hordes) and they're way too weak to even do anything with.

Trading hobbits for a building that allows Gondorian units to be recruited (over a span of time) seems like it would work well with Arnor.

[Devon]

So you get rid of two hobbit units for 4 gondor units and an extra hero? Too many units.

Besides, hobbits are quite useful at the moment

[mike_]

...especially for dojob

[Eärendur]

Most, heh. Only three got out alive. One of which, Isildurs herald I think it was, bore the Shards of Narsil back to Rivendell. Isildur and his three sons died in the battle.

Anyways. In 66 pages, what are the things that're going to happen for Arnor so far? I'm both curious and quite lazy. (Which means I want to know but I don't want to go check through hundreds of comments to see what people said YAY and NAY to.)

Alright, say we leave the idea of cavalry out. Theres still the problem with the hobbits, who I don't think belong in Arnor. Like I said before, the only time hobbits were said to go into battle with Arnor was during the Battle of Fornost, and that was just a few hobbit Archers. And only the hobbits recorded this, leaving it open for debate / doubt.

I think hobbits should be removed and replaced with something else. Don't know what, we could talk about that.

I had the idea that maybe instead of giving Arnor the Gondor inn faction, we could do a signal beacon, like what the Elves have now, installed into the fortress, or a fortress expansion even, or replace the hobbit house with the it. Basically, when you buy the beacon (or build it) it lights.

It takes a few minutes for it to call Gondor, to keep the whole thing realistic, but when it finishes and the signal is done, you unlock a building that replaces the beacon in the build-list, that lets you recruit Gondorian archers and swordsmen, maybe knights and Guardians of the Fountain Court. You also unlock a hero (who can ONLY be used with Arnor after this result is met), Earnur.

Also, into the building, you could make a separate tier of upgrades for the Gondorian units. Heavy armor, flaming arrows, horse shields, forged blades, all that fun stuff. So its like a mobile Gondorian-unit command center, sorta. The building could even be a collection of white tents. That would be awesome, to me. Level it up to three to unlock the forge / blacksmith, but when you level the building up to three to get to the blacksmith, it has all of the upgrades immediately selectable.

If the beacon is destroyed, the call is broken and you have to remake the beacon for it to begin again, and it starts all over. But if the beacon has already completed the call and then is destroyed, nothing happens except for you lose the beacon. Because the calls already went out. Debate? y/n, maybe? I think its a neat idea, personally.

I respect to the whole Steelbowmen thing, Maybe "Steelbows" should be an alternative Arnor Archer upgrade, so that you have to chose between Fire Arrows or Steelbows (Like the Dwarven Guardians having to chose between Forged Blades or Siege Hammers in BFMEII [base game]).

And as to the second thing about the Beacon as a structure, I think I posted a similar idea (before I joined the forum as a member) except for using it just for Dunedain and Elves. But your idea is WAY better, maybe Gondor, Dunedain, and Elves could all go into that Beacon building? And maybe you would have to build three of them? One for each sub-/mini-faction and that (just like Earnur) you have to buy the alliance before you can train the sub-/mini-faction's respective hero.

And, yeah, Hobbits should be scrapped.

(All that was written above was not meant to offend or contradict Lord_Faramir, Captain of Arnor, or anyone else.)

Edited by Arnorite, 23 March 2009 - 12:00 AM.

[Captain of Arnor]

No dude, I like your idea as well. The steelbow idea is a good one, I think that should be looked into, actually. Maybe a unit of Steelbow equipped Arnor Archers could combine with flaming arrow Arnor Archers to really tear some people apart.

The beacons should really be used instead of upgrades at the fortress. The upgrades take away a sense of realism that goes with the mod, since the only time it takes to get to the units the upgrades permit is the time of the upgrade and the time it takes to build the building itself. Hobbits should be scrapped and thrown out, if not to add an opening for extra units, then simply because they're not canon and not at all relative to the lores and histories of Arnor in Middle-earth. This mod has a lot of my respect because of how tightly its staying with the canon aspect of Tolkiens world.

One fault with that idea though. Now, since the Dunedain made up all of Arnor I think they should be available without any types of upgrades or anything. The Dunedain camp should be immediately available. The way the Elves work should stay the same.

Axe the hobbits, and the horse archers for the Dunedain I say. Then add the Gondorian units. It would add much more of a flowing feel to the mod, more like you're actually playing a game Tolkien himself had a role in making rather than just a modification. It'd add a new depth, a new realism, to it. So this is what I'm thinking, in full.

A building, either purchased as a building, or a fortress upgrade, or a fortress expansion, that looks like a signal fire or some type of a beacon. Right? Immediately after building / buying the beacon, it activates without you having to select anything. Five minutes in time goes past (to keep the realistic effect to it) and after those five minutes (during which is, basically, the time it took to trek from Gondor to Arnor) a new building option replaces the beacon building. The beacon goes out and can be destroyed or you can just leave it, whatever.

So the building that replaces the beacon is a series of tents. From the tents can be recruited a few units - Gondor Swordsmen, Gondor Archers, and (maybe) Gondor Knights. (The knights are open to discussion, since I still don't think Arnor needs cavalry that badly at all.) One hero as well - Earnur, who came to the rescue of Arnor. Albeit a little late. >.>;

Alright. So the tents get three levels, like every other building. Every level either adds new tents, makes the other tents larger, or both. At level three, you unlock a forge / blacksmith that goes with the tents. (Along with this, there should be a new tent added that has a man beating iron on an anvil outside). The upgrades, upon getting the Gondorian unit structure to level 3, are available for purchase. You don't have to level the blacksmith.

Now, to make room for the new units, I think three units should be removed. Horse archers in the Dunedain camp, and all hobbit units. Along with this, the hobbit structure should be replaced with the Beacon.

I hope I typed all that out right, lol.

Edited by Captain of Arnor, 23 March 2009 - 12:26 AM.

[Eärendur]

In total agreement there!!!

I think it should be a separate building, so that you could build it on fortress maps as well.
I also think that after you build the beacon and buy, lets say, a Gondor Alliance, it just unlocks a Gondor Camp in the builder's build tray, so that you could build another Beacon and buy an Elven Alliance at it and then unlock the Elven Barracks.
And maybe the Beacon could not be in the Builder's build tray, but on the Palantir like the Gondor Builder's Ithilien Outpost.

[dojob]

...especially for dojob

XD

I respect to the whole Steelbowmen thing, Maybe "Steelbows" should be an alternative Arnor Archer upgrade, so that you have to chose between Fire Arrows or Steelbows (Like the Dwarven Guardians having to chose between Forged Blades or Siege Hammers in BFMEII [base game]).

And as to the second thing about the Beacon as a structure, I think I posted a similar idea (before I joined the forum as a member) except for using it just for Dunedain and Elves. But your idea is WAY better, maybe Gondor, Dunedain, and Elves could all go into that Beacon building? And maybe you would have to build three of them? One for each sub-/mini-faction and that (just like Earnur) you have to buy the alliance before you can train the sub-/mini-faction's respective hero.

And, yeah, Hobbits should be scrapped.

(All that was written above was not meant to offend or contradict Lord_Faramir, Captain of Arnor, or anyone else.)

Two big problems there:
1) Having Gondor as an alliance; why would anybody play as the Gondor faction when you can just play as Arnor and get most of their units and more? I agree 100% with Dalf here:

part of the reason arnor has as many alliances as it does (hobbits, elves, and dunedain) is to make sure that arnor didnt end up being a gondor copy. that was the biggest reason that ea had for leaving arnor out, but we thought we could do something a little different to get arnor in and still be unique.
and perhaps we should be looking at arnor's lack of cavalry as something that forces a different strategy, rather than something that needs to be fixed. if every faction had the same units, just with different names and skins, the game would be very very dull.

And why bother upgrading to get Gondor units when they're not that different from Arnor ones; they already have archers and soldiers and you may as well just get elves instead if what u want is better pikes and cav...



2) Getting rid of Hobbits. We had a big argument about this a while back and IIRC the only changes we agreed on were replacing their rocks with bows and their sticks with knives/other weapons; they may be a bit weak, but they're very useful in the early game imo.

And if you skim through the Hobbits topic, then you'll find big posts like this that show how they're even canonical:

This is a copy of another post I did that covers a few issues in this topic.

Good lord. This is ridiculous. So much strive over such a little people. Well I am never one to avoid an argument so I'll submit my two cents, and correct a few annoying errors that people have said.

The first thing I would like to address is this ridiculous notion that hobbits were mighty warriors. They aren't. Why? Because they are half the size of nearly everything, have no martial traditions, and disliked disturbing their lives. That being said Hobbits are stated as having greater inner fortitude and courage than any other race. They are fat blobs of laziness nearly all the time, but when pushed hard and threatened they resist far harder and longer than anybody else. We see examples of this in Gollum, Sam , and the other three hobbits. Smeagol is a prime example of this great inner fortitude. He resisted the ring far far longer than any other race could have. Gandalf himself said this. If another person had held on to it that long they would have completely under gone the wraithing process. Sam shows the great courage that these little people had when he singlehandedly takes on Shelob, a monster that had killed far greater warriors on the past. Then with the scouring of the Shire we see these fat little people take on a group of men that could easily have killed them. They won not with strength but used their brains and outwitted the big oafs. Though it was only under the leadership of the four heroes. So as far as the game goes, they aren't the best fighters but should be useful if used intelligently. How to do that is left for later.

Now some people say they shouldn't be in because they were that important. Well all of the War of the ring revolved around these little people, so they are very important. Though it is valid to say that though they were central to the story they weren't central to the battles. This is very true, so clearly we don't want them for any faction then Arnor, whose storyline intersects the only time it is noted that Hobbits fought in large numbers. We know of two instances, the battle of greenfields and the fall of Fornost. Now neither of these battles had a large amount of hobbits, but they were still there. A larger force at the Battle of Greenfields, but this was their homeland they were defending, and a company of archers to Fornost. To correct a minor annoying error by Crazy Lib, a company is not less than thirty people. It is around 100. A Regiment is roughly 1000. So even though the hobbits send a small force they still sent them. And it must be remembered that there were hobbits outside of the Shire at bree.

As to what weapons the hobbits should use, it is said that at the time of the war of the ring very few hobbits had swords, so even though I don't think anybody is suggesting that I wanted to head that off. Sticks and stones seem like they make sense, that is what the sheriffs used, but it is silly. No self respecting hobbit would take on an enemy with a stick. A stick is good for beating a wild animal or ruffian, but they wouldn't be so stupid as to go in to real battle with a freaking stick. They would grab their axes, knives and farm tools. So I would replace the stick with an ax or other random farm tool. Now the pitchfork hobbits make good sense. If you were a hobbit and you were getting attacked by horsemen what would you do? You would grab the longest pointy thing you had and try to stab the horse. This would be a pitchfork, they are farmers. Now oddly enough this might be slightly effective. Due to the hobbits hight. The pitchfork would act like a long spear to a man. Now not the best defense but these are supposed to be your weak early game unit. Due to the half hight of a hobbit the sword of a horseman would not reach the hobbit so the only option is to trample, but this in turn leads to the oppertunity for the hobbit to strike at the underbelly of the horse. The stones are interesting, and a nod to lore, but in battle a thrown stone would not do much damage. They would use their weak hunting bows. Lo and behold that is what they actually did. So make the stone in to a sling or bow, and the stick into an ax or knife.

Now to gameplay, the hobbits aren't supposed to be strong, but they would still be useful. Recall I said the hobbits fought with brains not strength. In game play this is hard to achieve, but what is the most useful and notably attribute about hobbits? They are stealthy as, if not stealthier, then elves. So if you reduce the fighting ability of the hobbits but give them stealth they prove far more useful early on. Not as fighters but as distracters. Of course they should be weak and cheap, but they should be useful. The renaming thing is a ridiculously tiny issue. There was no standing Hobbit army; there was no organization. When they did fight the male hobbits just grabbed what ever weapon they had and joined together. Some leading hobbit, like the Thrain, master of Buckland, or the mayor would just lead them.

In conclusion, the hobbits are an integral part of middle earth and they need to be included. They aren't good fighters but they are brave and smart. They would use any sharp pointy thing as a weapon not sticks and stones. Arnor is the only faction that makes sense to have them. The pitchforks fill a vital role and could possibly be effective in reality. The hobbits also need stealth this is a very important part of what a hobbit is.


P.S. I can kill you with my brain.

P.P.S. Anybody get that joke reference?

If they're canonical and useful for gameplay (Hobbit pitchforks are very important for creeping and fending off cav or mumakil rushes since u can't get any other pikes until u ally with the Elves), then they should definitely stay; the effort to get rid of them just isn't worth it tbh.

That said, idk why we cant have a beacon structure for people playing in fortress maps, and then we move the alliance upgrades there

Edited by dojob, 23 March 2009 - 01:05 AM.

[Captain of Arnor]

Well, I whole-heartedly disagree with that, 100%. Arnor and Gondor are one in the same - they were both founded by Numenoreans who survived the Downfall of Numenor, they operate the same way. I can't even really express this, because its just too painfully obvious for me to even put into words, you know? Gondor + Arnor = Numenore. And you play Arnor rather than Gondor for the Arnor feel. The units, the structures, the way it flows. Its just got a different feeling to it, I like Arnor a lot more than Gondor personally. I really think this beacon system, some kind of alliance system with Gondor, weather done through the Inn or through what I proposed, would complete it.

Hobbits were only recorded going into the battle for Fornost by the hobbits themselves - neither Arnor nor Gondor recorded this event. I personally doubt it. But thats why Tolkien left it like that. So it would be open for interpretation. If nothing else, put the Gondorian units in for the sole reason that its more canonical. I don't even want them for better pikes and cavalry, I want them because it would add a more complete feel to the Arnor faction.

Arnor worked with Gondor. Gondor 'tried' to save Arnors ass, but failed. Arnor was ruled by Elendil, and Gondor was ruled by Anarion and Isildur - Elendils sons. Anarion governed Minas Anor (aka Minas Tirith), Isildur governed Minas Ithil (aka Minas Morgul, later) and both governed Osgiliath, the central-city of Gondor and the home of the the chief Palantir of the South. They were sister-kingdoms, Gondor and Arnor. And since you, of course, can't make an Ancient Gondor faction on its own to make it compatible with Arnor from Gondors side, Arnor should be able to interact and work with Gondor from their side. Since the effort to make an inn faction or beacon system to recruit them would seem nil, in comparison with, say, the work thats been done on the Elves or The Men of the East. Know what I mean?

In closing, I'll just say this. Hobbits suck. I've never one single time used them, never found the reason. I can generate resources quick enough to make up for the losses I sustain when taking out a cavalry charge with Swordsmen, and archers destroy Mumakil in no time at all. I think the beacon system I purposed would give Arnor a more Arnor-ish feel, would make it more rounded and more stable, and draw more people to the Arnor area of this mod.

Certainly many more than hobbits would anyways, if you think about it.

I'm done now. :D And don't think I'm being hostile or mean or anything, I'm not trying to, I'm just wanting to get my point across and make what I mean obvious.

And one last thing. Please add Bear-mans.

Edited by Captain of Arnor, 23 March 2009 - 01:19 AM.

[mike_]

Why not have Gondor cavalry with Earnur as a summon and be done with it?

[{IRS}Athos]

An excellent suggestion! A mounted king, for a change, would be a nice touch... since they pretty much all rode horses.

[Dunedain Lord]

No dude, I like your idea as well. The steelbow idea is a good one, I think that should be looked into, actually. Maybe a unit of Steelbow equipped Arnor Archers could combine with flaming arrow Arnor Archers to really tear some people apart.

The beacons should really be used instead of upgrades at the fortress. The upgrades take away a sense of realism that goes with the mod, since the only time it takes to get to the units the upgrades permit is the time of the upgrade and the time it takes to build the building itself. Hobbits should be scrapped and thrown out, if not to add an opening for extra units, then simply because they're not canon and not at all relative to the lores and histories of Arnor in Middle-earth. This mod has a lot of my respect because of how tightly its staying with the canon aspect of Tolkiens world.

One fault with that idea though. Now, since the Dunedain made up all of Arnor I think they should be available without any types of upgrades or anything. The Dunedain camp should be immediately available. The way the Elves work should stay the same.

Axe the hobbits, and the horse archers for the Dunedain I say. Then add the Gondorian units. It would add much more of a flowing feel to the mod, more like you're actually playing a game Tolkien himself had a role in making rather than just a modification. It'd add a new depth, a new realism, to it. So this is what I'm thinking, in full.

A building, either purchased as a building, or a fortress upgrade, or a fortress expansion, that looks like a signal fire or some type of a beacon. Right? Immediately after building / buying the beacon, it activates without you having to select anything. Five minutes in time goes past (to keep the realistic effect to it) and after those five minutes (during which is, basically, the time it took to trek from Gondor to Arnor) a new building option replaces the beacon building. The beacon goes out and can be destroyed or you can just leave it, whatever.

So the building that replaces the beacon is a series of tents. From the tents can be recruited a few units - Gondor Swordsmen, Gondor Archers, and (maybe) Gondor Knights. (The knights are open to discussion, since I still don't think Arnor needs cavalry that badly at all.) One hero as well - Earnur, who came to the rescue of Arnor. Albeit a little late. >.>;

Alright. So the tents get three levels, like every other building. Every level either adds new tents, makes the other tents larger, or both. At level three, you unlock a forge / blacksmith that goes with the tents. (Along with this, there should be a new tent added that has a man beating iron on an anvil outside). The upgrades, upon getting the Gondorian unit structure to level 3, are available for purchase. You don't have to level the blacksmith.

Now, to make room for the new units, I think three units should be removed. Horse archers in the Dunedain camp, and all hobbit units. Along with this, the hobbit structure should be replaced with the Beacon.

I hope I typed all that out right, lol.

since u want to stay real, let me help u consider the time it takes for an army of gondor to aide arnor.
i dink the alliances are perfectly fine, and that ur dozing off on ideas WAY too far.
and actually, now that i dink of it, arnor should be diff from gondor in many ways, or else there's no point.
And hobbits suck? My god, do you know how great they are in early game? They can be massive building and unit killers when used correctly.
And take away dunedain horse archers? What are you smoking? The alliance forces are the forces that help arnor alot!
First, they are fast. Second, they cant be trampled like regular rangers. And 3rd, they can still trample.
I am pretty opposed to your idea. Like you said about hobbits, they helped in 1 battle, Fornost. What about Gondor? They didnt help in the war
of Angmar and Arnor at all! They just brought themselves after the whole thing ended. Technically, there was no arnor to aide, only a quest to destroy
Angmar. Therefore, Gondor should not be added.
i understand you would like more "men" units for arnor, but it doesnt work kind of.................
Arnor was long dead when Gondor came in, and the remnants of Arnor are scattered bands of warriors and rangers.
Yes, Arnor was remade by King Ellesar in the 4th age, but I hardly think anyone cares for that.
This is my opinion so please dont get angry.

[Captain of Arnor]

A summon-Gondor power would be temporary. It takes away from it, if its temporary. =\ It'd be more fulfilling if it lasted, do you not think? The idea to make him mounted is great, however. But I'm still willing to sacrifice all of Arnors cavalry units for a Gondorian alliance or something along those lines. Simply because it existed, and it should be added to the game because it WAS an aspect of Gondor and Arnor in the books and lores of Middle-earth.

And actually, Dunedain, Arnor wasn't 'long dead' when Gondor rode in to save them. Arnor had only just been destroyed. The Witch-king and his Captains were still feasting in Fornost when Gondor (with Cirdan and Glorfindel) rode in to try to salvage what could be saved. Which wasn't much.

I know well how long it would take for an army to ride from Gondor to Arnor. But if you think I'm going to sit back and wait a year for an army in game to get to me, lol. Lolololol. Five minutes is long enough. Besides, I know that in a game like Age of Empires, a year goes by in one minute. Thats game-time, however. So considering, five minutes is actually a long, long time.

I said take out the Dunedain horse-archers simply because they're the most expendable units in there, aside from the hobbits (who suck. Hard.) Instead of spending money to make a building for the hobbits, make two barracks. Use one to pump out a few Swordsmen squads, one to pump out some Archer squads. Combine hordes, then wreak havoc.

And finally, I'm not talking about late third-age early fourth-age Arnor. I'm talking about a thousand years into the third age. And make a Gondorian inn-faction or alliance option that corresponds to that. I'm not saying cross two thousand years and grab current Gondor to team up with Arnor, if thats what you're thinking.

I'm guessing you misread most of what I posted, or I hope so anyways. o.o

Edited by Captain of Arnor, 23 March 2009 - 01:55 AM.

[Dunedain Lord]

Well, I whole-heartedly disagree with that, 100%. Arnor and Gondor are one in the same - they were both founded by Numenoreans who survived the Downfall of Numenor, they operate the same way. I can't even really express this, because its just too painfully obvious for me to even put into words, you know? Gondor + Arnor = Numenore. And you play Arnor rather than Gondor for the Arnor feel. The units, the structures, the way it flows. Its just got a different feeling to it, I like Arnor a lot more than Gondor personally. I really think this beacon system, some kind of alliance system with Gondor, weather done through the Inn or through what I proposed, would complete it.

Hobbits were only recorded going into the battle for Fornost by the hobbits themselves - neither Arnor nor Gondor recorded this event. I personally doubt it. But thats why Tolkien left it like that. So it would be open for interpretation. If nothing else, put the Gondorian units in for the sole reason that its more canonical. I don't even want them for better pikes and cavalry, I want them because it would add a more complete feel to the Arnor faction.

Arnor worked with Gondor. Gondor 'tried' to save Arnors ass, but failed. Arnor was ruled by Elendil, and Gondor was ruled by Anarion and Isildur - Elendils sons. Anarion governed Minas Anor (aka Minas Tirith), Isildur governed Minas Ithil (aka Minas Morgul, later) and both governed Osgiliath, the central-city of Gondor and the home of the the chief Palantir of the South. They were sister-kingdoms, Gondor and Arnor. And since you, of course, can't make an Ancient Gondor faction on its own to make it compatible with Arnor from Gondors side, Arnor should be able to interact and work with Gondor from their side. Since the effort to make an inn faction or beacon system to recruit them would seem nil, in comparison with, say, the work thats been done on the Elves or The Men of the East. Know what I mean?

In closing, I'll just say this. Hobbits suck. I've never one single time used them, never found the reason. I can generate resources quick enough to make up for the losses I sustain when taking out a cavalry charge with Swordsmen, and archers destroy Mumakil in no time at all. I think the beacon system I purposed would give Arnor a more Arnor-ish feel, would make it more rounded and more stable, and draw more people to the Arnor area of this mod.

Certainly many more than hobbits would anyways, if you think about it.

I'm done now. And don't think I'm being hostile or mean or anything, I'm not trying to, I'm just wanting to get my point across and make what I mean obvious.

And one last thing. Please add Bear-mans.

And, *gasp*, when did gondor help arnor in the war, again? When they fought in the battle of the Last Alliance, they were not Arnor and Gondor. They were a whole body of men. It was along the way that they made their kingdoms.
Like others said, there's no point of having Arnor if it's like Gondor.
For the last time! Hobbits do not suck! The pikes are pretty effective and they have more potential then the stupid dunedain soldiers.
Hobbits form early game archers, swordsmen, and pikes. Getting five + battlaions of them at early game, and attacking the enemy would do
some damage, if not alot. Following the hobits would be a large group of soldiers that could evidently be good strategy. Try using hobbits sometime?
If you love that "Arnor-ish" feeling, get your butt over to Gondor. They're all the men you need. Arnor should be different or there is no point to it..........
I mean, what's the point of having two factions, with the same units, and only different skins?
EDIT: dude, arnor was dead if its destroyed. It's heart, fornost, was gone. Obliterated. The witch king conquered that day. Gondor arrived at a point far too late. The north kingdom was in ruin. Maybe your idea could go for a diff faction? Maybe you could call it "The Gondor+elves against Angmar?" Or w/e, its not gonna happen.
And who gives a crap about Gondor's history? That's not the topic at hand. Gondor's history has nothing to do with Arnor alliances. If they were true allies, Gondor would have come as quick as possible. They might've been brother nations, but as u may know, brothers do not get along. It was the blood of the founders that made them alike, and the fact that they were men of numenor. Nevertheless, after the Disaster at Gladden Fields, the leaders were gone, and Arnor most likely lived on its own with the aide of elves and hobbits in the war with angmar.
What I said might not be accurate, but im pretty sure it is. I'm not a bookworm on tolkein's work so if you'll excuse me.

Edited by Dunedain Lord, 23 March 2009 - 01:59 AM.

[Captain of Arnor]

It doesn't seem that I can get my point across to this guy, so I guess I'm done here for now. I hope someone takes a look at my idea and sees it for what it is - a very solid idea that would draw a LOT of attention to the mod and add a whole new level of game play to an already epic faction.

Edited by Captain of Arnor, 23 March 2009 - 03:52 AM.