1712 replies to this topic

[Dunedain Lord]

And what is this point you are trying to say? Gondor did not help Arnor until they were gone. Annihilated.
I hope you get my point.

[Captain of Arnor]

The fact is they TRIED to help Arnor before they were destroyed. Its a years-trip from Gondor to Arnor (as proven by when Boromir tried to go from Minas Tirith to Rivendell) and he was a single man trying to make the trek. Not an army of a few thousand men and horses. If anyone could've made it quicker, it was a single man.

Hobbits did nothing in the war against Angmar. Like I said before, the hobbits SAID they had one single group of hobbit archers that headed to Fornost to help in the final battle - the hobbits said. Tolkien left it open for the people to make up their own minds. Neither Arnor nor Gondor took record of this.

Arnor and Gondor were sister-kingdoms, one in the same. Arnor was Gondor, Gondor was Arnor. Just north and south. They had the same blood running through their veins, they were all Numenoreans, their kings were all heirs of Elendil and Isildur and Anarion. Those are all facts. They got along fine. The only reason Gondor didn't arrive in time to help Arnor was because of the distance between the two. Arnor sent word to Gondor to send reinforcements up a few months before it was destroyed. There was no way they could've ever made it in time. Earnur got there as fast as he could.

I think it would be a solid edition to a solid faction, the beacon-alliance system would. Its a neat idea, its custom, nobody else has even done anything like it as far as I know. The closest you can come is the Elves, but thats still different than what I've proposed, even if it draws off of the same general idea.

Just because you've got two different types of Swordsmen and two different types of Archers and a few extra cavalry men, and an extra hero doesn't hurt anything about either faction. Think about the Elves. They've got like, five different types of infantry, six different types of archers.

And I know I got that point across there, because its painfully obvious. Gondor and Arnor should be together in some way. Through an inn faction or through my proposed beacon alliance system, it doesn't matter - it belongs in game, because it fits in perfectly with Tolkiens work.

[mike_]

The Elves are like they are because they're three different factions, technically. They need those redundant units so they can play as individual factions - the others are there to supplement them.

There's no real point in having Arnor infantry alongside Gondor infantry (besides the fact it'll look cool ). It's just unnecessary work.

DONE.

[Captain of Arnor]

=\ I still disagree, but since everyone here is allied against me on this (except for Anorite) then I guess I have to concede. Oh well.

[{IP} Aridor]

Well I for one would like to see some changes to Arnor, mostly more focus on the men. I do agree that there seems to be too many elves. The hobbits should stay but with changes like we discussed at the beginning of this past summer.

Wow I have to say Do-job I can't believe you pulled that post. I'd forgotten all about that argument. I feel like every 6 months we fight over the same stuff all over again. Whatever though they're new people, they don't know. BUT if anybody says anything about crossbows having longer range than the longbows I'll fricking destroy them. That is an argument I don't want to have again.

[Captain of Arnor]

Crossbows have shorter range but they're more accurate, in general. Longbows are good for having a hundred of 'em and filling the air with arrows and shooting the arrows a couple hundred feet. =\ Everyone should know that.

And yes, Arnor should focus more on the Men rather then the Elves, but the Elves should play a part in Arnor because Arnor was comprised of the Faithful of Elendils line. They were friendly with the Elves, they belong there really. And considering the distance between the Grey Havens and Arthedain, and Rivendell and Rhudaur, the Elves definitely would've been lending a hand to Arnor during the war against Angmar. If for no other reason than to keep themselves from getting raped by the Witch-king and his hordes. But for the most part, I agree.

I won't rest, simply will not, until I see Glorfindel become a recruitable fortress-hero for Arnor.

Edited by Captain of Arnor, 23 March 2009 - 03:00 AM.

[shadowcreature]

He is, just build on the WOTR map.

[Captain of Arnor]

WotR sucks hardcore with Arnor. I like to use auto-resolve to get through crappy low-number battles that I'm sure to win so I can get on to the hard fortress sieges, but it always CTDs when I auto-resolve as Arnor. =\ Do not want. He should be a skirmish hero.

[{IP} Aridor]

I am fine with the elves I just want to have a larger mannish presence in the faction. As it stands I rarely use the men. I spam hobbits until I get the elves and then it is game over.

You'd think that was obvious that longbows have better range but we had one hell of an argument about it a long while back.

[Captain of Arnor]

Anyone who argues that has never read anything about the old English longbow-men, or the Japanese bows. The French used (and perfected) the crossbow, but it could and would never outshoot the English longbow. Lol. I've known that since I was like, eleven. XD

But yeah, there should definitely be more Men in the Arnor faction. Thats another reason I was fighting for the Gondor thing. It'd add more of a presence of Men to the faction, rather than just the stupid hobbits which aren't at all canonical, and the Elves. Which I like.

Even though I rarely use the Elves and I've not one single time ever used the hobbits. I just create a huge army of swordsmen and archers and tear the enemy apart like that.

[Eärendur]

It doesn't seem that I can get my point across to this guy, so I guess I'm done here for now. I hope someone takes a look at my idea and sees it for what it is - a very solid idea that would draw a LOT of attention to the mod and add a whole new level of gamep lay to an already epic faction.

I am with you man, 1000%!!!

And I don't want to sound like an ass, but....
Hobbits SUCK!!!!
Just today I fought as Arnor against Angmar, and just decided to build some Hobbits to make sure that I remembered just how useless they are. And guess what?!?! I remembered correctly! They DO suck, five battalions of "Hobbits with pikes" couldn't even kill one Troll Stone-thrower before they were killed by Rhudaur Axe-throwers.
and that is why Hobbits are completely useless and should be removed from Arnor A.S.A.P.

[Uruk King]

I agree, if anything, hobbits should be relocated as an Inn faction for Arnor.

[{IP} Aridor]

Actually that isn't a bad idea.

[Dragonforce]

Why not have Gondor cavalry with Earnur as a summon and be done with it?

Thta could replace the Arwen cavarly thingy

[{IP} Aridor]

Yeah b/c that is lame.

[dojob]

It doesn't seem that I can get my point across to this guy, so I guess I'm done here for now. I hope someone takes a look at my idea and sees it for what it is - a very solid idea that would draw a LOT of attention to the mod and add a whole new level of gamep lay to an already epic faction.

I am with you man, 1000%!!!

And I don't want to sound like an ass, but....
Hobbits SUCK!!!!
Just today I fought as Arnor against Angmar, and just decided to build some Hobbits to make sure that I remembered just how useless they are. And guess what?!?! I remembered correctly! They DO suck, five battalions of "Hobbits with pikes" couldn't even kill one Troll Stone-thrower before they were killed by Rhudaur Axe-throwers.
and that is why Hobbits are completely useless and should be removed from Arnor A.S.A.P.

Ok, so early pikes can't kill catas, big deal; they're not meant for that, but if you're going against a player like Yoda or me, then they're EXTREMELY important for holding off mumakil and cav rushes and they're good for early creeping as well. They may be a bit weak individually, but you can mass so many of them from the cheapass hobbit holes that their quality is meaningless and you can just cover the enemy cav or mumakil in a blob of pitchforks so they can't escape. So please, don't judge whether a unit sucks or not by sending them to attack units they're not even supposed to counter... :S Or at least get more of them next time, since 5 hordes is nothing compared to the masses I like to bring in from my 5-6 hobbit holes.

AA, I think Arnor infantry are great atm and I definitely prefer Arnor archers over hobbit sherrifs since they have better range, there's more of them per horde, and u can upgrade them too, and soldiers are good for similar reasons except instead of having better range, they're sturdier fighters. Sherriffs are a bit weak in my opinion (though it has been a while since I've used them so idk if they're been changed or are good against buildings since i never really used them for that), so imo they should have some special abilities or something like stealth, since that's apparently what they're best at. Or give them knockback effects with melee, that would be a nice surprise You can deal with weak units by buffing them, just so u know, instead of just throwing them away.


And come on, personal preference is no reason to shove more work onto rob's back and make him add another alliance with units to add. Arnor is already a pretty complete faction as it is imo and if u want to show Gondor's alliance with Arnor, then we could always add Gondor as an inn faction. Putting Gondor units directly in Arnor like Elves and Dunedain wouldn't add depth, it would create redundancy because all of the units that you'd get with a Gondor alliance are similar to units that the Arnor faction can get already.

The Gondor faction needs to have a distict style and obvious advantages, and if you're going to let Arnor get Gondor's basic units, then why not just get rid of the Gondor faction completely when nobody is gonna play as Gondor considering they can just be Arnor instead and get all the same units and more?

[Captain of Arnor]

I just want Gondor as an optional alliance with Arnor, since thats how it was in the stories works. How its done (through inn or my proposed beacon system) doesn't really matter all that much, as long as it happens in the end :D Like I said, a fully custom Arnor (or the promise of one, back when I learned of RJ-ROTWK) was what drew me to this mod. I want to see Arnor turn into a really kick-ass faction that has more of a custom, complete, fulfilling feel to them than any other faction in the game. Because they definitely have that potential here.

Rob has already worked wonders with this mod, don't get me wrong, and I don't want to say 'give him more work for Gods sake', but I want more people to come to the mod. RJ-ROTWK definitely deserves more face-time then it gets (in my eyes, it should be ruling over Moddb without a shadow of doubt) and Rob and the entire RJ team deserves more credit then they get.

Like always, keep up the great work guys.

Edited by Captain of Arnor, 23 March 2009 - 08:35 PM.

[Dalf32]

the point of hobbits being in is so that you can get a crapload of them and get an early numbers advantage on your opponent. you can use this either to harrass, or simply to defend against rushes and the like. just because you dont use them, or you use them incorrectly (pikemen are not good against siege regardless) doesnt mean they are useless.

[Captain of Arnor]

I understand that they're good for early-game defense, but they could certainly be replaced by other Men units. Hobbits don't belong in Arnor at all, they weren't even really there to begin with in the books and histories.

I know I keep bringing up the canon aspect of the mod, but forgive me. I think its been well preserved thus far, and it should really be kept that way, as much as possible. Hobbits never played a role in Arnor at all. Make Arnor Pikemen as an early Pike unit, or something, thats the best choice if you ask me.

[dojob]

But Hobbits help make Arnor unique and the faction and the mod itself would become less interesting to people if Arnor was just another man faction and essentially a Gondor clone. You need to draw people with things that are unique and creative, and throwing in a bunch of units that are already in the game for one faction as units for Arnor is godawful for uniqueness (Oh yeah, Gondorian units, those are totally different from Gondor's units and Arnor spearmen aren't like Gondor spearmen AT ALL) and isn't creative at all imo :/


You're canon argument is shaky because I've got at least one gigantic post from AA that supports the contrary, and if a bigtime purist like AA support(ed) keeping Hobbits similar to their current form, then they've gotta have at least a little canon behind them and even a little canon is enough to keep these units imo, which are fantastic for diversity and gameplay in the mod. You may not like them, but you've gotta think of the people who enjoy using them before completely getting rid of them.

Having Gondor as an inn alliance would let people who absolutely need to see Arnor with Gondorian units get ur Gondorians while people like me who appreciate Hobbit units and Arnor's current state can keep happily spamming pitchforkers allover the place. Everybody would win that way...

Edited by dojob, 24 March 2009 - 12:15 AM.