1712 replies to this topic

[shadowcreature]

Glorfindel will be making his comeback I'm fairly certain, but having a mounted Arnorian king is just as good. Either Argaleb so we don't have to see his on foot model, or Arveleg considering he was quite the mover during the besieging from Angmar.

[Eärendur]

I vote for Arveleg. How else did he escape Amon Sul, on foot? I highly doubt that.

[Dunedain Lord]

And cost more or get a slight nerf

er.................no

Is it too much to ask for an explanation as to why you disagree?

is it too much to ask for an explanation as to why you think they should be nerfed?
also, it's your f***ing problem that the ai spams trebs. NOT the game's style.
Explain how its op. EXPLAIN!

Edited by Dunedain Lord, 17 April 2009 - 09:31 PM.

[Dunedain Lord]

Dunedain Lord, the Arnor trebuchets are very heavily overpowered. I don't even need to use trebuchets at all at any point in the game, unless my enemy decides to throw some walls up. Any talented player doesn't need them, even if they do add another strategy to playing as Arnor. If you're that dependent on them, come up with another strategy, I say.

Or give a better reason than 'no' as to why they shouldn't be nerfed.

They need to be very heavily depowered, AI needs to be adjusted so that they don't spam them by the dozens every rush, and they need to be reskinned. Thats pretty much the bottom line.

when you play an MOTE with someone who is far better than you, you will need them, and you will depend on them.......alot
Trebs only good for siege? My god, dont even get me started.
and if you do this and not to gondor and all other siege materiel? You've gotta be a frekn idiot.

Edited by Dunedain Lord, 17 April 2009 - 09:29 PM.

[Uruk King]

Will you calm down!

To make your thoughts on the trebuchets plain, they are overpowered because they can be upgraded, they can do severe damage, and when the AI spams them in rediculous quantities, you may have adjusted to it but many people haven't. In real life the trebuchet is one of the most powerful forms of early projectile weoponry, but it can only fire in one position at any one time, it mush be dismantled for transport. So hopefully, given Rob considers the trebs, he might create a model that deploys to fire and undeploys for movement. When that trebuchet design comes, it will be expensive and dificult to use, but immensely powerful.

And don't lash out by insulting people, it starts fights and conflicts and bitterness which is something no one wants. You don't need to make enemies over some silly discussion about seige weopons. A lot of people may have differeing strategies to going about the battlefield, sometimes it's successful, sometimes it isn't, but it's how one learns on these things. But don't try to get foul-mouthed about things like these, if anything, it's bad form.

[{IRS}Athos]

To answer Earendur's question about Arveleg: he didn't escape from Amon Sul. He died there, but the Palantir was rescued by his soldiers and borne back to Fornost.

[Dunedain Lord]

Will you calm down!

To make your thoughts on the trebuchets plain, they are overpowered because they can be upgraded, they can do severe damage, and when the AI spams them in rediculous quantities, you may have adjusted to it but many people haven't. In real life the trebuchet is one of the most powerful forms of early projectile weoponry, but it can only fire in one position at any one time, it mush be dismantled for transport. So hopefully, given Rob considers the trebs, he might create a model that deploys to fire and undeploys for movement. When that trebuchet design comes, it will be expensive and dificult to use, but immensely powerful.

And don't lash out by insulting people, it starts fights and conflicts and bitterness which is something no one wants. You don't need to make enemies over some silly discussion about seige weopons. A lot of people may have differeing strategies to going about the battlefield, sometimes it's successful, sometimes it isn't, but it's how one learns on these things. But don't try to get foul-mouthed about things like these, if anything, it's bad form.

is it really this faction's fault for having the Arnor AI spam trebs? answer: no.
and acutally trebs do have to stop to shoot, they cant fire while walking if that's what you mean.
Sorry for the words, I am a little ticked off today.
The fact is, the trebs are siege just like gondor, you either change none or you change both and all the other faction siege materiel.

[Devon]

And cost more or get a slight nerf

er.................no

Is it too much to ask for an explanation as to why you disagree?

is it too much to ask for an explanation as to why you think they should be nerfed?
also, it's your f***ing problem that the ai spams trebs. NOT the game's style.
Explain how its op. EXPLAIN!

Dunedain Lord, the Arnor trebuchets are very heavily overpowered. I don't even need to use trebuchets at all at any point in the game, unless my enemy decides to throw some walls up. Any talented player doesn't need them, even if they do add another strategy to playing as Arnor. If you're that dependent on them, come up with another strategy, I say.

Or give a better reason than 'no' as to why they shouldn't be nerfed.

They need to be very heavily depowered, AI needs to be adjusted so that they don't spam them by the dozens every rush, and they need to be reskinned. Thats pretty much the bottom line.

when you play an MOTE with someone who is far better than you, you will need them, and you will depend on them.......alot
Trebs only good for siege? My god, dont even get me started.
and if you do this and not to gondor and all other siege materiel? You've gotta be a frekn idiot.

It's op because the siege works costs rediculously little, and they are too spammy for siege, and they do too much damage for their costs...With 3300, you can get a workshop and 4 trebs. Or you can get a pen and a mumakil, and in about the same time. I'd rather have the trebs, how bout you?

[Githiran]

what heroes will be for the next release? i was reading some of my warhammer books and it says that the grey company are a part of arnor - maybe you could include a halbarad and an arathorn? i think theyd make a nice few additions to the "arv's". i know they arent around the same time but id like to see them in the mod ^^ also, if you are stuck for powers, ill se what i can do

[shadowcreature]

They are yes, however the two suggested heroes I doubt will be implemented considering the time issue and they didn't do anything significant in Arnor's time.

[Dunedain Lord]

I'd rather have the mumak if it were a solo 4 trebs vs. one mumak match.
And that's not what I'm saying at....all. Fine, increase the cost of the siege works, but that's all.
Gondor has the same system so I dont know heck where this treb fight started.
Or take away trebs and replace with another type of siege? your choice.

[Githiran]

They are yes, however the two suggested heroes I doubt will be implemented considering the time issue and they didn't do anything significant in Arnor's time.

ah shame about that, i was looking forward to more heroes for arnor from what has been done to them so far, they seem just like a professional faction. Also, will the istari summoned wizards be boosted with powers/effects? last time i remember getting them, i didnt think they were worth the points. however, what has been so far on RJ-RotWK is probs the best RotWK mod ive seen so far, however i like certain aspects of others, of course.

im more of a hero person, thats why i asked in the first place .

[shadowcreature]

Yes, Arnor has been formed into a well made faction this far. Keeping on the subject of heroes, i was wondering if an alternative could be possible for them instead of placing them for certain buildings. Why not just have them require their respective alliance upgrades like the buildings do? That alone sounds like an edge for Arnor.

[Captain of Arnor]

Dunedain Lord seems like a guy who's way too dependent on hard hitting siege weapons to win a game. He seems afraid that reducing the power of Trebuchets means he'll never win another game or something.

1.) When fighting against foot units, trebuchets suck. You've got your men fighting their men and more often than not the trebuchet will hit your guys more than it does theirs.

2.) When firing the trebuchet at moving units, it misses. Every time. I know how to use the barrage option to lead enemy forces, but not everyone can.

3.) Do I even need to mention how bad cavalry rip them apart?

Trebuchets suck. They should deploy for extra power, and get bonus range, but get no movement at all. Not even side to side. They get like, a long but very narrow range directly in front. Thats how they worked back in the feudal ages.

Now, in bases and castles, they would actually put them on a swiveling platform (that could also lock if they needed it to) that they could use to turn the trebuchet here and there to acquire new targets. Its actually a pretty interesting technology, considering their time...anyways. Yeah, Arveleg and Glorfindel should get mounting abilities.

And Dunedain Lord needs to take a chill pill, a breather, needs to calm down, whatever. Dude needs to relax before he has a heart attack or something.

Edited by Captain of Arnor, 20 April 2009 - 06:41 PM.

[Uruk King]

In the lightest manner of the phrase, yes. And you're right about the whole trebuceht palava, it should be sorted out (as well as the whole seige system), and the AI need's to be weaned off them, or at least the good one should.

[dojob]

Dunedain Lord seems like a guy who's way too dependent on hard hitting siege weapons to win a game. He seems afraid that reducing the power of Trebuchets means he'll never win another game or something.

1.) When fighting against foot units, trebuchets suck. You've got your men fighting their men and more often than not the trebuchet will hit your guys more than it does theirs.

2.) When firing the trebuchet at moving units, it misses. Every time. I know how to use the barrage option to lead enemy forces, but not everyone can.

3.) Do I even need to mention how bad cavalry rip them apart?

Trebuchets suck. They should deploy for extra power, and get bonus range, but get no movement at all. Not even side to side. They get like, a long but very narrow range directly in front. Thats how they worked back in the feudal ages.

Now, in bases and castles, they would actually put them on a swiveling platform (that could also lock if they needed it to) that they could use to turn the trebuchet here and there to acquire new targets. Its actually a pretty interesting technology, considering their time...anyways. Yeah, Arveleg and Glorfindel should get mounting abilities.

And Dunedain Lord needs to take a chill pill, a breather, needs to calm down, whatever. Dude needs to relax before he has a heart attack or something.

Meh, they've got fairly good armor and you can wreck an enemy's archers (or their soldiers before they reach ur guys), and if they do close in then all u need to do is have them bombard in front of ur own lines, so they're actually really good siege weapons. I like the idea of a stationary siege weapon as much as u do (though, only facing one direction is a bit far tbh), but then again, the Dwarves would be better off with a stationary cata weapon imo

[Captain of Arnor]

They only faced one direction in reality. In actual wars, trebuchets were extremely large, heavy weapons that required almost an entire minute to reload. I've got real-life personal experience with a trebuchet, me and a few friends of mine actually made a feudal-quality trebuchet (out of materials that would've been available then, no rubber and all that) and it fired almost a hundred yards. But the time it took to reload was over a minute and though the power was tremendous, it was very one dimensional - it fired one direction, and the range off to either side was extremely limited. And I can't even imagine what would've happened if we had put wheels on the damn thing.

If you want to stay realistic with this, thats how it should be. They should only turn around on bases, where swivel platforms are part of the base of the trebuchet. On the field, they should be forced to pack and re-deploy before they can change directions. One way to avoid this is to have 3 / 4 trebuchets on the field at a time.

[Dalf32]

while having all siege be immobile whilst firing is more accurate, i would rather see that mechanic reserved for the dwarves. if we start giving it to all of the factions then the dwarves could lose something that would have made them a unique siege faction.

[Devon]

Dunedain Lord seems like a guy who's way too dependent on hard hitting siege weapons to win a game. He seems afraid that reducing the power of Trebuchets means he'll never win another game or something.

1.) When fighting against foot units, trebuchets suck. You've got your men fighting their men and more often than not the trebuchet will hit your guys more than it does theirs.

2.) When firing the trebuchet at moving units, it misses. Every time. I know how to use the barrage option to lead enemy forces, but not everyone can.

3.) Do I even need to mention how bad cavalry rip them apart?

Trebuchets suck. They should deploy for extra power, and get bonus range, but get no movement at all. Not even side to side. They get like, a long but very narrow range directly in front. Thats how they worked back in the feudal ages.

Now, in bases and castles, they would actually put them on a swiveling platform (that could also lock if they needed it to) that they could use to turn the trebuchet here and there to acquire new targets. Its actually a pretty interesting technology, considering their time...anyways. Yeah, Arveleg and Glorfindel should get mounting abilities.

And Dunedain Lord needs to take a chill pill, a breather, needs to calm down, whatever. Dude needs to relax before he has a heart attack or something.

Yes about dunedain () no about everything else.

What youd described is how the should be, not how they are. Me and dunedain had like an hour to an hour and a half long game where he had like 15 trebs and rangers hordes and a couple spearmen of the havens, and I tried everything I could to get past. Any attack force would get ripped apart by combined rangers and trebuchets. Footsoldiers failed, my own archers got eaten up, and the rangers backed by spearmen demolished any cav. 10 Mumaks and probably about 200 haradrim guardians (the elite 500 cost ones) got demolished. It was rediculous. They are waaay to spammable.

[Dunedain Lord]

Dunedain Lord seems like a guy who's way too dependent on hard hitting siege weapons to win a game. He seems afraid that reducing the power of Trebuchets means he'll never win another game or something.

1.) When fighting against foot units, trebuchets suck. You've got your men fighting their men and more often than not the trebuchet will hit your guys more than it does theirs.

2.) When firing the trebuchet at moving units, it misses. Every time. I know how to use the barrage option to lead enemy forces, but not everyone can.

3.) Do I even need to mention how bad cavalry rip them apart?

Trebuchets suck. They should deploy for extra power, and get bonus range, but get no movement at all. Not even side to side. They get like, a long but very narrow range directly in front. Thats how they worked back in the feudal ages.

Now, in bases and castles, they would actually put them on a swiveling platform (that could also lock if they needed it to) that they could use to turn the trebuchet here and there to acquire new targets. Its actually a pretty interesting technology, considering their time...anyways. Yeah, Arveleg and Glorfindel should get mounting abilities.

And Dunedain Lord needs to take a chill pill, a breather, needs to calm down, whatever. Dude needs to relax before he has a heart attack or something.

i really dont know what you mean by "deploy" because they already do deploy before shooting unless you mean by the fact that they shoot while moving?
And if you were fighting someone like yoda, you need the damn trebs.
And I do not release strategies to others....