1712 replies to this topic

[shadowcreature]

They'll probably become the MMH

[Gr1m]

They'll probably become the MMH

Yeah, hopefully. I'm disappointed they won't be mainline troops, personally, but I can live with them being MHH, simply because it'll make them incredibly powerful, which is suitable.

I'm not too sure about elite infantry though...it sort of sounds too Tower Guard-ish, too Gondor. I think the basic Dunedain infantry with Elven elites works at the moment. If we diversify Arnor's basic battle line too much, it'll make the allies upgrades redundant.

[Uruk King]

But give you more choice in terms of strategy, more creativity. Arnor does work now, but it could still have that bit more expansion

[shadowcreature]

Agreed, just a few tweaks and Arnor will pan out fine. One thing I think should be tinkered with is the training time of the Hobbits, I find it a little unusual that I have pumped out 4 Dunedain solder battalions thus bringing my barracks to level 2 and the Hobbit House is still training its queue, usually 6 Pitchforks.

[Uruk King]

That of course is only if hobbits are going to say in the main faction, which personally I would rather see them relocated to the Inn.

[shadowcreature]

True, I personally couldn't care either way. the "infantry Hobbits" can't be brought back to the LWM, yet they can be trained at the Barracks. The only thing I'd like to see for Arnor are more Men units and maybe relocate the fire arrows upgrade somewhere.

[CIL]

I'd say move the fire arrows to the smith and then move the Silverthornes to the Elven barracks.

At any rate, I'd love to see the Hobbits being thrown down the drain... I can't stand the thought of them being actual units usable in the way they are now.

[dojob]

And I just love to use them as units, just hobbits allover the place. If you don't like them, then don't use them.

[shadowcreature]

Granted, they are a little meh, I use them too. Also, like dojob said, don't like them, don't use them.

[CIL]

I don't like them used against me either. Thankfully, I only fight Arnor online, but even then, it's a pain. Canonically, they shouldn't be in. They only fought once for Arnor, and it was in small numbers.

Edited by CIL, 04 May 2009 - 10:22 PM.

[dojob]

So ask people not to use them online. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean that they're a balance problem or there aren't other people who do like them and think they're good units.

The whole point of playing games like this is to be able to make the units that people want to use and use their imaginations to do things that never happened in the lore or movies, but would still be awesome to see. That's why you can play any faction in any spot on any map with any other factions as ur allies or enemies. That's why Angmar and Arnor are in the mod at the same time as Isengard.

If you're so nitpicky that you want to get rid of 2 units and a building just because they only showed up a little bit and you don't like them, then I think Hobbits are the least of your worries.

Edited by dojob, 05 May 2009 - 12:49 AM.

[CIL]

They are a canon problem, though. There were only 2 instances when they fought in numbers over 4 that weren't in their homeland.

[dojob]

So? They still fought, and were capable of fighting.

[CIL]

But they hardly ever fought. Ask yourself... would they FREQUENTLY march far and wide to say... Mordor in numbers in excess of 50 to engage in war?

Didn't think so. Nor would the Rohan peasants.

[dojob]

Again,

The whole point of playing games like this is to be able to make the units that people want to use and use their imaginations to do things that never happened in the lore or movies, but would still be awesome to see. That's why you can play any faction in any spot on any map with any other factions as ur allies or enemies. That's why Angmar and Arnor are in the mod at the same time as Isengard.

If you're so nitpicky that you want to get rid of 2 units and a building just because they only showed up a little bit and you don't like them, then I think Hobbits are the least of your worries.

And besides, CIL, they still fought a little, and this mod doesn't give a damn about where people fought or who they fought anyway or else I wouldn't be able to have Elves fighting Rohan in Harad and Rob would've gotten rid of the Arnor and Angmar factions all together. The point is that Hobbits were capable of fighting and actually had fought alongside Arnor soldiers, so if I'm going to take a long-dead kingom to the War of the Ring, then I may as well bring the Hobbits with me.

[Uruk King]

OKAY, That's enough!!

My verdict would be keep Hobbits as optional Inn units for Arnor, Dojob can continue to spam hobbits till worlds end provided he has captured an Inn, and CIL can formulate his own strategies without having to worry about hobbits, every one has their own tactics and how to gat about a battlefield.

Hobbits were part of Arnor's domain and if the King required their aid, they would send it, though not too enthsiastically I reckon, and at a price. I certainly disagree with a massive host of Hobbits dominating the battlefield as if they could be recruited they way you could call forth orcs. The most notable instance of Hobbits at war before the War of the Ring was the Battle of Fornost. But then again if Hobbits were known to have sent their folk to do battle against Angmar, they would not have continued as the idyllic people you see in the movie, they would have lacked the innocence and naivety of the wider world that you see in the books. So it's all a bit of a stir about hobbits.

[dojob]

And the maps without inns?

[Neth]

OKAY, That's enough!!

My verdict would be keep Hobbits as optional Inn units for Arnor, Dojob can continue to spam hobbits till worlds end provided he has captured an Inn, and CIL can formulate his own strategies without having to worry about hobbits, every one has their own tactics and how to gat about a battlefield.

Hobbits were part of Arnor's domain and if the King required their aid, they would send it, though not too enthsiastically I reckon, and at a price. I certainly disagree with a massive host of Hobbits dominating the battlefield as if they could be recruited they way you could call forth orcs. The most notable instance of Hobbits at war before the War of the Ring was the Battle of Fornost. But then again if Hobbits were known to have sent their folk to do battle against Angmar, they would not have continued as the idyllic people you see in the movie, they would have lacked the innocence and naivety of the wider world that you see in the books. So it's all a bit of a stir about hobbits.

Good Conclusion

And the maps without inns?

Will not get hobbits. Simple

[dojob]

That sucks then, because most of the good maps that I like don't have inns :/

After you guys have paraphrased the same "Hobbits didn't send that many troops" argument over and over, I get the point that they were few in number and that they shouldn't be as numerous and spammable as they currently are, but what you're asking for really isn't a fair compromise at all because it effectively gets rid of the Hobbits on the maps that I play on, and is no different to me than getting rid of Hobbits all together.



Now before you respond to this post with YET ANOTHER POST THAT ONLY TALKS ABOUT THEIR NATURE IN THE LORE, I want you guys to answer these questions:



1) Why must the Hobbits, a race that directly sent a force (no matter how small it was, it was still sent) to fight alongside with Arnor soldiers, when other allies such as the Dunedain and Elves can remain?

2) Instead of completely getting rid of Hobbit units, why not just add and alter a few armored man units so Arnor players don't have to use Hobbits, but can still get them on any map if they want to?

3) I get it that Hobbits are WAAAAYYY too spammable at the moment, but why is their removal as normal trainable units the only way to make them less spammy?

4) What do you think about the idea below? WHY DO YOU AGREE OR DISAGREE?


Since there's a common understanding that Hobbits are too spammy, I want to make all of these changes: A) make them require an alliance just like the Elves and Dunedain, thus forcing people to use armored men in the early game and making Hobbits less accessable, B) increase the prices and of the houses and Hobbits themselves while also giving them some small buffs and maybe stealth capabilities to keep them balanced, and C), limit the number of Hobbit HOUSES people can get to 3, so people can't mass mobs of Hobbits in little time.



I honestly think this is a good compromise, because it greatly limits the use of Hobbits while still letting the people who enjoy them use them, and having only 3 (or 1, if you really insist) Hobbit houses basically has the same effect as moving Hobbits to inns, except that it gives people more choices and options than just keeping them at inns whose positions aren't chosen by the player and aren't always on every map.

Sorry for all the big fonts and caps, but I really want to make sure that this post is read and that my questions are answered. I've seen enough posts about the nature of Hobbits in the lore, so more of those won't be necessary. What I've never seen are real reasons why explain their total removal as normal units when there are plenty of other ways to make them less spammable.

Edited by dojob, 09 May 2009 - 01:18 AM.

[Devon]

Agreement with Dojob. In this case, screw the lore. They fought, and they should be represented in Arnor without needed a map with an inn on it.