1109 replies to this topic

[Myrdin]

you gyus kinda look like you missing the point !
AXETHROWERS ARE ANGMARS ONLY BASIC RANGED UNIT !!! if you take them away or make them to close combatants, they will be without range support till LVL3 Hall of Kings Man, to get Dark Rangers who ( btw ) cost pretty much.

Soo im suggesting - stop getting weird ideas ( lol and IAM saying this ? ), unless you add something that would replace them, means : taking away ranged unit making it into riders with axethrow ability, fine BUT - get some another basic ranged unit in its place (i dont care what, if you wish, than make frogs throw bamboo sticks ) !
thats not order, that pure thing of balance ( all races have some kind of basic ranged, which is supposed to cower, up till you get some better " shootas " )

Edited by Myrdin, 04 May 2008 - 01:51 PM.

[Uruk King]

Are you objecting to my javelin suggestion. I never suggested taking them away, just replace them.

As for any others, the idea about Lord of the Rings is that it's not meant to be total pure fantasy, but Fantasy blended with Realism in an authentic way. it may feature Elves, Dwarves, Dragon's and Trolls, but don't let that drown the realism/historical concept intended by Peter Jackson.

[mike_]

Yes. While it is indeed a fantasy universe, realism is still heavily retained in it.
And for an Angmar ranged unit...why not just use your bog-standard Orc Archers with a poison arrows upgrade? Aragorn says in the books that the darts of Orcs were sometimes poisoned...and seeing as the remnants of Angmar would be the only ones he'd have fought for most of his life, it makes sense.
Cheers,
-mike

[dojob]

Not more archers... that's boring. STILL sticking to the raiders idea since at least they're close to "realistic" and will still be at least somewhat ranged, assuming that their ax throw would have a low timer.

I can perfectly understand and expect reason that's logical like pikes>cavalry or catapults>buildings, but such a focus on realism as the number of axes a person would carry into battle is nonsense, because if you want to be THAT realistic, then all the ranged units would only fire a certain number of shots and then would have to run back to the base to get more arrows since they can only carry X arrows/axes at a time, or units would take months to arrive at the battle since they're literally "training". If I wanted realistic battles, then I'd be a historian or join the military. This is a game, and I don't want to be held back by trivial, extremely detailed crap like the number of axes/arrows/munitions people can carry into battle. End rant.

Edited by dojob, 04 May 2008 - 05:59 PM.

[Dalf32]

nice rant dojob; im usually the one doing realism rants lol. its nice to have someone else to fill the role
i wouldnt mind poison orc archers but not the javelin throwers because haradrim and rohan already have those so it wouldnt really be special imo. you must have something that is permanently ranged so i dont really like the rangers idea as a replacement for the axe throwers, but they could go in and i wouldnt complain...

[mike_]

Rangers...what do they have at all to do with Angmar? Even "Dark Dunedain" wouldn't be numerous or skilled enough to form a cohesive unit.
-mike

[Uruk King]

You know I kinda disagree with the idea of an elite Archer unit such as Dark Dunedain archers. Two reasons, you don't see that sort of thing in all evil factions. This is the trouble with angmar, it's too generic. the only significant difference is the Thrall Masters and the op/expensive elite units, and possibly their close liasons with sorcery and wraiths. It could do without those archers and be replaced by something else

[Myrdin]

hmm i got and idea for the basic ranged unit.

Barbarian slingers : throwing smaller rocks, but deadlier, thx the sling increasing the speed of the stone, and even giving you the chance to shot precisely.
it would be unique, it wouldnt copy anyone ( not even hobbits, for they throw the rocks, and are noob aimers ).

they would do not much dmg ( just like gondor archers - really weak archers ), and could get upgrade that would increase theyre range a bit, maybe " Leather sleeves " (sp?) or something.
Basically to just get some diferent "not archer, jawalin" unit type

[tylerman29]

i loled at "noob aimer" but ye thats an original idea.

[Uruk King]

hmm i got and idea for the basic ranged unit.

Barbarian slingers : throwing smaller rocks, but deadlier, thx the sling increasing the speed of the stone, and even giving you the chance to shot precisely.
it would be unique, it wouldnt copy anyone ( not even hobbits, for they throw the rocks, and are noob aimers ).

they would do not much dmg ( just like gondor archers - really weak archers ), and could get upgrade that would increase theyre range a bit, maybe " Leather sleeves " (sp?) or something.
Basically to just get some diferent "not archer, jawalin" unit type

That's quite good actually.

[Ed Of The 3rd Kind]

how about adding a twilight wraith as a hero? one of the angmar heroes all ready looks as though he's in that form so it wouldn't be a step too far to imagine him in there, simply a question of binding the twilight ringwraith to a skl and changing the crown (seeing as its the WK's crown).

Will have to check the hero list in game for RJ - to see what the exact hero lineup is.

Edited by Ed Of The 3rd Kind, 05 May 2008 - 04:41 PM.

[Myrdin]

there is already a new wraith hero . . . but yet he needs a lot of work done as much as i like him, he s not even half of complete ( he doesnt seem to be able to lvl up, though he gets the shiny thing around him when heroes lvl up ).
but still he is pretty cool, if get reskinned he will surely rock !

[Ed Of The 3rd Kind]

there is already a new wraith hero . . . but yet he needs a lot of work done as much as i like him, he s not even half of complete ( he doesnt seem to be able to lvl up, though he gets the shiny thing around him when heroes lvl up ).
but still he is pretty cool, if get reskinned he will surely rock !

Wow, will have to see that

[dojob]

Rangers...what do they have at all to do with Angmar? Even "Dark Dunedain" wouldn't be numerous or skilled enough to form a cohesive unit.
-mike

Idk, but I suggested a RAIDER unit and not a ranger unit

And Ice arrows, what could possibly be so special about adding ice to an arrow?

[mike_]

Nothing at all...that's just EA's lack of proper research
I've actually thought about a "slinger" in the past, but decided it wouldn't work well for BFME for two reasons: it'd be animation hell, and difficult to balance. There are reports and documents that say they were anything from fast, powerful, accurate marksmen, to clumsy, slow-firing mobs of men.
And just for the sake of it...how are Orc-archers "unoriginal"? IIRC, they're only currently used in Mordor. Not in Isengard or Moria. Just Mordor. And with a "poison arrows" type upgrade, that would further unrelate them to the Mordor ones. As for bows being boring...seeing as they were the primary ranged weapon (in reality) until the widespread use of gunpowder-loaded muskets, it would make sense for them to be used here. Not to mention warriors of the same friggin' race would use similar weapons
Cheers,
-mike

[myster]

hmm i got and idea for the basic ranged unit.

Barbarian slingers : throwing smaller rocks, but deadlier, thx the sling increasing the speed of the stone, and even giving you the chance to shot precisely.
it would be unique, it wouldnt copy anyone ( not even hobbits, for they throw the rocks, and are noob aimers ).

they would do not much dmg ( just like gondor archers - really weak archers ), and could get upgrade that would increase theyre range a bit, maybe " Leather sleeves " (sp?) or something.
Basically to just get some diferent "not archer, jawalin" unit type

actually by the books, hobbits Are good aimers

[tylerman29]

I LOVE the idea of a orc unit archer for angmar maybe gundabad archers ???

[Uruk King]

Couldn't agree more, and also to keep up the presense of barbarian hillmen in Angmar, the're could be a raiding infantry class hillman unit aswell. Basically Wildmen attatched to a Thrall Master

[Myrdin]

i already proposed a Gundabad inn faction - full of nasty new, units that consist of orcs orcs orcs
for the " not original " i ment all archers, not just orc archers, i know bow is comon weapon ( tool ), but this is a gmae soo we need to be a bit creative.
for the slingers, i dont see why they should be hard to code, model yeh, code maybe, but balance . . . just give them slash dmg like axethrowers or hobits have, and do some settings in the strength and range, etc ( basically, just reskinn hillman and all done )

[dojob]

Animation could be a problem for it...

And Myrdin's right about archers: It's not particularly orc archers that aren't unique, but another archer unit in general.

Edited by dojob, 06 May 2008 - 07:00 PM.