1109 replies to this topic

[Allathar]

Copied from LWM thread, about LotRO and the RJ-mod - suggesting there could be one or two bad guys from LotRO in as heroes for Angmar.

Annúminas was a great city of the kings of Arnor, on the shores of Evendim. It was deserted however, during the war against the Witch-King in the early Third Age. One of the Witch-King's Lieutenants was an elf, corrupted by one of the minor Rings of Power, Narchuil. Her name is Amarthiel, the Champion of Angmar. In an attempt to gain his daughter back, the father of Amarthiel destroys Narchuil in two pieces and hides them, after the fall of the Witch-King during the battle of Fornost. He fails however, and Amarthiel disappears.

During the War of the Ring, Sauron sends one of his Lieutenants to rebuild the kingdom of Angmar. The steward of the Witch-King is the wraith Mordirith. Books 1 to 8 of the epic storyline of the game is about the player against the armies of Angmar, and at the last chapter you manage to strike a severe blow against Mordirith. Mordirith pulls back to Carn Dûm. With Mordirith in a weakened position, Amarthiel shows up again, quickly grabbing the palantír of Carn Dûm which previously belonged to Mordirith. With the palantír she seeks Narchuil, her lost Ring.

Being a rival of Mordirith, Amarthiel chooses to reside in Annúminas. During the storyline in Annúminas, with the help of the Dúnedain you eventually capture Mordrambor, one of the Black Númenorian lieutenants of Amarthiel. After a vision in the palantír, Amarthiel sends Mordrambor to the Trollshaws to find Narchuil. You grab and destroy the palantír of Annúminas, however.

Mordrambor finds one of the two pieces of Narchuil and returns it to one of the fortresses in Angmar, for study. After a succesful raid you capture the piece. Laerdan, the father of Amarthiel, tells you where he hid the other piece - he gave it to the Last King of Arnor. That means the piece is in the ship that sunk in the barren ice-lands of Forochel. I don't know how it continues (my game card was up ), but eventually you gain the other piece, and as the rivalry between Mordirith and Amarthiel grows into civil war, attempt to reforge it in the Eregion Forges.

Although they fight both for the Witch-King, Amarthiel and Mordirith could never ever be on the same team, because they are eachothers rivals and are currenty (in the MMORPG Lord of the Rings Online) in Civil War. Instead, you can only build one of the two - Amarthiel or Mordirith.

Pictures of the two:

Amarthiel, Champion of Angmar

Spoiler

The Wraith Mordirith, Steward of the Witch-King (a.k.a. The False King)

Spoiler

[Myrdin]

this looks as a perfect material for mid late game heroes ( second strongest after WK ), eventually you would be able to choose from both of them, but only one of them may be pruchased at time and " live " in the game ( though if he dies, you might instead of resurect recrout the second one, or resurect the first ).

That Amathiel (sp?), looks like badass dark elf sorcerrer, with some really painfull AoE spells. She might be a bit weaker at combat, but have powerfull, qiuckly reloading spells, of mass destruction.

while the wraith Mordirith (sp??), could be some half fightning half summoning character, able to call for shades, ghosts and wights.

heres the idea ( to begin with something )
both are as replacement for Rogash, soo 3000, each of them

Amathiel
lvl 1 - Uncertain reflection - passive - every 25 seconds, wievs a small area on the map. Its 100% random, whether it is enemys base, part of landscape or your own teritory. its every 25 sec. soo no problem, the wieved area is rather small, and i dont want to copy the " palantir wision " like powers.
lvl 3 - Shard of Narchiul - Allows Amathiel to teleport in medium distances ( not like Karsh - whole map ), fast reload
lvl 5 - Corrupted Sorcery - Lightning strike (CaH wizard), just in purple, everything other remains same (dmg, range). Reloads twice as fast as normal ligthing strike.
lvl 7 - Soul Wortex - Amathiel channels a deadly wortex on the ground, that sucks enemy units and heroes in its " heart " (imagine maelstorm), every unit that finds itself sucked inside of the vortes suffer 50 dmg per second (dps). The wortex takes 8 seconds to channel and, remains 10 seconds - Amathiel must remain channeling for the whole time or the spell will break (those who play WoW, know what i mean with channeling). IF the spell ends without being disturbed, the wortex explodes, dealing additional 100 dmg, to surrounding units ( YES, FRIENDLY FIRE THE WHOLE TIME ! ). Works on buildings with halfed efect. She can channel the wortex, from pretty loong range ( like most elite archers )
lvl 10 - Dark Coven - creates two mirror images of Amathiel, (+ the original one ), Each mirror image, has only 1/2 of her health, but has wide AoE dmg and + 100% attack power, no powers ( the images last for 20 seconds ). IF any of the images is KILLED, then Amathiel is healed for 500 hp immediatly. (not if theyre timer runs out)

Mordirith
lvl 2 - Blade of death - Allows Mordirith to attack 2 units at one time, and increases his attack speed by 10%
lvl 4 - Restless Spirits - Mordirith summones several hordes (4 batalions) of ghost (2xgundabad orcs, hillman, and BA), who will fight for their master. (though i wrote 3 different units, they all have same hp 250 and dmg as g. orcs - they should be shady, ghostly " like thoose that one of the nazghuls can summon). units last 2 minutes
lvl 6 - Wolf Shadows - Mordirith summon 2 giant Wolf spirits (each 800 hp, zerker like dmg and AoE), that fight for their master till theyre corporel form is destroyed. ( Freki and Geri anyone ? )
lvl 8 - Steward of DeathKnight - Mordirith, takes on form of Death itself, thus becoming invincible. gets 150% dmg boost, and trippled AoE (he could kill 2 at lvl 2 soo x3) but his movement speed is reduced by 80%, this state remains for 8 seconds. http://i243.photobuc...grim_reaper.jpg
lvl 10 wersion1* - DeathGuard - Mordirith summon his 2 personal undead guards. These wengefull spirits http://www.gotwarcra...j/twinsemps.JPG ignore any armor type. They have Dread Wisage, and AoE dmg. They can heal incombat (like elfs swordsman lvl 2, could if not changed). When killed they die in blast of pure agony cripling enemies on the place of theyre death and dealing 200 dmg in small radius. They suffer no timer, but only 2 can be summoned at a time
OR
lvl 10 wersion2* - Death Sentence - Mordirith, can instantly drop enemys hero hp to 20% of its FULL amount, but dropping his own hp to 10% of his FULL amount. Loong coldown ( around 15-20 min )
(though i think since hes ment more for summons, the Deathguard is better).

Edited by Myrdin, 16 July 2008 - 03:04 PM.

[Puppeteer]

What's wrong with the letter "v"?
Anyway, this seems like a pretty cool and unique idea.
Myrdin, what do you mean by "wievs"? Reveals?

[Scryer]

I'm more of a fan of Amarthiel to be honest because Karsh already covers the "Wights and Spirit's" leader. Not sure why she's around though..

I don't mean to rain on anybody's parade but I almost think that if we get a BN hero (think it should be Mike's suggestion) it would be enough heroes for Angmar. I think that adding another hero ontop of a BN hero, would cause the new hero to lack a purpose. Anyone else feel this way?

Edited by Scryer, 16 July 2008 - 10:12 PM.

[Dalf32]

a tad...

[njm1983]

depends on how many get canned in favor of new ones.

[myster]

i dont like any made up hero actually... there is not even a shard of evidence that an amathiel or whatever... ever existed...

[Myrdin]

What's wrong with the letter "v"?
Anyway, this seems like a pretty cool and unique idea.
Myrdin, what do you mean by "wievs"? Reveals?

i wanted to tipe " insight ", but for some (for me uknown ) reason, i wrote wievs, sorry for caused confusion.

[njm1983]

i dont like any made up hero actually... there is not even a shard of evidence that an amathiel or whatever... ever existed...

Well the problem with that frame of mind is that lore-wise The Witch King would be the only hero for Angmar then.

[Srg Insane]

well myster theirs a bit a of problem then, considering Tolkien never named any heros, besides the Witch-King, so we half to make them up and keep realistic to the Tolkien's middle-earth.

[Myrdin]

well myster theirs a bit a of problem then, considering Tolkien never named any heros, besides the Witch-King, so we half to make them up and keep realistic to the Tolkien's middle-earth.

aii, thats true (me salutes)

[Scryer]

My only beef with this is that giving Angmar another hero could defeat its own purpose.

Adding both of the two heroes suggested would shift Angmar's focus on its heroes. <Just my opinion though. But adding one hero ontop of a BN hero is just overkilling Angmar in my opinion.

I strongly think that Angmar only needs one new hero. And I think that it should be Mike's suggested hero because it would fit in nicely with the others. I mean; you'd have Hwaldir and the BN hero as Early-Game-Heroes; Then you would have Karsh and Morgormir as Mid-Game-Heroes; And lastly the WK would be your only late-game hero. If the WK gets his powers re-worked, then he'd be the only late-game hero that you'd want/need.

I feel that adding another Late-Game-Hero would shift Angmar's strategy, making it feel more awkward than what EA pulled off.

Edited by Scryer, 17 July 2008 - 11:09 PM.

[Puppeteer]

Karsh is a fantastic hero in my opinion, so perhaps as the only Wight hero in Angmar keeping him unique is the best thing to do...

[Myrdin]

i just noticed, after having a loong game for angmar.
you remember how many people ( me too ) complayined about how the wights look ? that they are too ghostly, spirit blue, etc etc ?
yesterday i zoomed in, as much as possible and still keeping enough distance to see the whole unit - and i was shocked when i found out that wight model ( on ultry high details ), is pretty good. Really its made good enough, to keep it. Soo all that needs to be changed is that blue glowing colour, into black, with grey fog like shaders. Nothing hard for someone who knows how to make skins, at least a bit.
i think its worth a try.

edit: btw, Amathiel and Mordirith, as i suggested them were not able to be ingame at the same time - you would have to choose, between badass dark priestes (Amathiel) , or undead summoner (Mordirith)

[Scryer]

I'm voting a "no" to either hero because I like Karsh's uniqueness, so Mordirith is out of the question for me.

And adding Amarthiel could give us that Sorcerer hero, but I think that adding her would shift Angmar's focus on its heroes. I like that these heroes were suggested because with Angmar, you have to look at it from all "angles". But I just don't think that they'd work with a BN early-game hero. And without the BN hero, adding either of these heroes is not filling in the "Early-Game hero" slot that I think that Angmar needs.

Now if anything, I think that we should all talk about the WK's powers because (from what I remember from the top of my head) we never really agreed on one thing. We just kind of accidentally moved on, I think... I suggest that we start back from Myrdin's suggestion (the one where the WK takes two "power-paths") because that suggestion outlines what the team could do with the WK in Angmar. In my opinion this means that the team can stay with either the classic WK or make an EA Ice-themed WK.

Sorry if I'm forcing us back to a topic too soon...

Edited by Scryer, 18 July 2008 - 05:16 PM.

[Myrdin]

since scryer added a good point, i searched for it, and im gonna toos it here again, soo you people can " refresh " what it was about. ( Dont forget that, glacier, has been swapped for mount, as we discussed about this originally )

but i like his idea, and already i got some myself.

There could be two sets of powers, two ways soo to speak, and you might choose one of them
dont mind the names its just " beta "
Way of Ice
Way of Corruption

Way of Ice -Ruler of Angmar, his domain was in icy, frozen lands, and soo he uses these deadly powers to bring death to his enemies. Though i dismissed the mount power, eventually it could stay ( and the glacier thing could go as its a wery daring power )
Chilling Wind - lvl2 - Dread wissage like aura power, instead of decreasing armor and dmg of enemies, slows down they movement and attack speed
Freezing clutches - lvl 4 - Witchking chants the freezing powers and temporally freezes enemy structure ( like 15pp )
Ice prison - lvl6-7 - The evil Witchking strikes his sword against the ground, freezing enemies surounding him. These enemies cant move, dont take dmg from attacks, but recieve some medium ( 120-200 ) dmg while frozen (sorcerrers anyone ? )
Glacier - lvl8 - As a mighty sorrceror, Wk can gather water around him, freezing it instantly, thus summoning a giant glaciar that may pierce single target ( good vs heroes, and single monsters ), it rips out from the ground, piercing the enemy
Blade of Ice - lvl0 (ultimate) - Withcking uses his most powerfull spells to enchant his sword, and change it into weapon of pure ice. This deadly weapon deals single 4 times as much (4x) damage to any enemy unit or structure. But as this weapon is needs wery much power to create ( loong couldown, around 10 minutes ), it drains soo much power from Witchking that he stands unprotected for few seconds after the sword shatters ( criplles himself for 15 seconds after used on target ) - the whole efect is like: the sword becomes crystal, pure white and he smashes it on his foe in the next attack ( huge ice explosion - just for the effect, the dmg is dealt only to the main target, though WKs AoE remains during this )

Way of Corruption - Wk as we all know him, with slight changes ( dont worry NO burning sword as much as i love it ) wieved more as a evil sorcerrer with deathly corrupted spells
Dread Wissage - lvl2 - . . . dread wissage as we know it . . . .
Corrupted land - lvl 4 - Witchking in all his evilness, enchants the ground itself with evil magic, thus leaving all enemies who stand upon it to suffer the corruption of soul itself (medium area, any enemy unit who walks/stands on the corrupted ground suffers poison dmg over time, dunno how much, but if they idle there too much theyll die)
Morgul Blade - lvl6 - . . . . same old Wks morgul blade . . . .
Barrow Den - As the one who gathered evil spirits in the barrow dens, thus changing them into undead wights, the Witchking can summon this unholy graveyards to any place his masters heart desires ( summons barrow den+2 wights who respawn if killed, no timer for the den, needs to be destroyed )
Screech of Damnation - lvl10 (ultimate) - The Witchking, evil unholy beying lord of the nine, has faar more fearfull screech that chills the blood of even the strongest wariors than any other nazghul. A powerfull screech wave that dmgs (or kills, depends on the dmg) and stuns ( 8 seconds ) units in wide area ( Word of Power ). Though the screech of Witchking is wery powerfull, he cant predict how much it will hurt his acursed foes ( means the dmg is randomed from 100-800). Coz of the random dmg this power can be cast pretty often compared to other lvl 10 power ( just 3-5 minute coldown)

there you go, this is all thanks to Gothmog, who inspired me, thank you, as i had a lot of fun creating this ( i always enjoeyd creating new power, heroes or races for PC or DgD like games )

[Scryer]

Like I said in my previous post, this outlines the two things that the team could do for the Angmar WK. Myrdin's suggestion is the best example of the two best things (IMO) that the team could do with the Angmar WK. I think that we should discuss here which "path" or "way" would best suit the Angmar WK.

If I'm switching the topic too fast, I apologize. I just don't like moving on from one thing before anything is clarified/semi-agreed on. <Although I am doing that now, I'm just afraid that we might forget to discuss the Angmar WK and miss something in the end.

So I'm going to list some pros and cons (mostly based on my opinion) for the two ways you could do the Angmar WK (AWK -I'm sick of writing out Angmar WK, so I'm abbreviating it even more! ). I'm going to base his powers off of Myrdin's suggestion:

Ice-Based:

Pros:
- Gives us something new and fresh to work with. It also brings out some more sorcery powers in the WK. Which is something that classic WK lacks a little in.
- Can do a lot of damage (I'm using Myrdin's power suggestions as an idea for his powers) on the battlefield instantly and quickly.
- Sounds like an Iced-based AWK would do quite a bit of damage to heroes as well.
- Looking at the other heroes (and many will probably disagree with me) they are mostly army supportive heroes. Karsh is the only hero out of all of them that has a power that really destroys a lot of units, from what I remember. So an Iced-based AWK would fill a role that the other heroes aren't filling completely. Normally Rogash would fill this role, if any of you were wondering...

Cons:
- Offers next to nothing for your own army.
- Murders the lore.
- Alot of the powers sound the same to me. Like they have similar effects - they destroy stuff to put it plainly .
- Out of the two ways to do the AWK, I think that this one has more of a chance of overpowering him.

Classic WK-Based:

Pros:
- Best to do when you take the lore into consideration.
- The powers support the army.
- If the AWK gets to keep his amazing attack strength, then the powers and the AWK's attack would complement each other nicely.
- Gives the player a little flexibility. Meaning that with this way (respecting the lore) the AWK can summon wights, support his army with some leadership ability(ies), and maybe have one big attack.

Cons:
- Doesn't give us anything 'new' to work with. It would be like playing Mordor's WK only with different powers and no fell-beast.
- This way would probably not fill the role of an army-destroying hero. This also means that the AWK wouldn't give us a hero with a semi-new role when comparing this way to Angmar's other heroes.
- A lot of his powers (once again, I'm basing this off of Myrdin's suggestion) would be the same or atleast very similar to the Mordor WK's powers. <Which makes sense but it doesn't allow a lot of new things to experiment with.

And that's all I can think of .

[Myrdin]

the Glacier power, that was ment as mostly anti hero, has been replaced by normal mount unmount power, as i (and im the creator of this power ) felt that is a bit too much (push the button! ), soo instead of that is normal mount dismount. All others remain.

you got i little miscalculation there, as WK has no army supporting power - he has "army demoralizing " powers (well theoretically its "indirect support ", but werll leadership is support, soo let us not make it too complicate )
The classic WK, i suggested has slightly different powers, which i swapped for some more suitable.

The whole point of this two paths is : You could choose one of them, and that kind of WK you would have ingame (which makes the gameplay itself a slightly customizable - players like it, when they can customize theyre stuff to more suit theyre needs). I was thinking like, at lvl 2, the two " spells " (paths) would be awailable and you could choose which one you like, you dont have to choose immediatly and just play with WKs pure strenght, if you re not sure what path you need more. But if you choose one path, and WK had already lets say lvl 5, he will be reset, to lvl one Path of XXX. Makes people not choosing too hastly, but at the same time, wont give them the relax to not choose the whole game. so to say " gives them time to think, but not too loong "

[Puppeteer]

Oh no, if you do it, let them choose the path whenever and until they do give them mount anyway. If they're at level 6, don't make him reset to level 1 when they choose the powers just keep it.
I like the uniqueness of the idea; you either choose the Ice Witchking deal most of the damage in your army, and so make him the top priority target (think Aggro in "Army of Two"), or choose Corruption path and the Witchking does not deal most of the damage, but is a very strong support who can hold off people by himself for a long time.

- Murders the lore.

Blunt and to the point

Edited by Puppeteer, 19 July 2008 - 02:05 PM.

[Myrdin]

yup, you got it pupperter
till now Wks power was only all around his huge AoE, the Ice path, gives you the " ranged " support that allows you to take down units, even faster. The ice path is ment to make WK and only himself strong.
The Corruption path, is half normal WK, and half "my" WK, this WK, is good in combo with army, where his dread wisage debuffs enemys, and the Corrupted land power, penatrates a certain point of theyre strategy, as the ground over which they walk kills them - soo you can temporally secure a certain path where you dont wish the enemies to roam.
then theres the summon wight lair power, which allows you to buff your own defense, either inbase, or near some outpost, inn whatever, the lair, cant build wights, but has 2-3 wights, guarding it, autorespawning ( every 1minute ) if killed.
The last power Screech of Damnation, was ment as evil wersion, mockery of Gandafls word of power. Though its weaker, it reloads several time faster, and can disrupt enemy formations - randomed dmg, plus knocback, can save WK if he needs to escape, or can give a nice "backup" when figthing army against army.
- i like the idea of letting WK mount, if you dont choose the path, yeh that good
but i dont want him to nor reset, after you choose your path - the thing is - when you have hero, and you see the spells youll eventually acquire by lvling up, youre anxious, and cant wait to achieve the exp rank, and get those powers into your grip. I want the people to see the powers ( new icons needed, think shikari is good at this ), read the tooltip, and say something like " damn, i want this, comon dude lvl up ", soo youre eager to play with WK more becouse you see the new powers and want them. If you would get them immediatly after "pathing" lets say lvl 10 WK, you would apriciate them soo much, becouse you would get all the powers + ulti, immediatly, not being restless lvl after lvl waiting for new " toy " to play with .....
ooh damn another loong post well i hope i was able to convince you, that aquiering one spell after other is better, then get them immediatly with much harder lvled up wk ( since he had no power without "pathing " him )
btw: i think most of the poeple would choose beneath lvl 3, since they would want the WK to be stronger (having power) then as he is with just his normal attack. ( the real problem would be then, to choose, if you want a strong disruptor, breaker of enemy ranks, and army leader, or single solo tank caster, who can take a lot of fighting, but gives absolutely no bonus to your or debuffs to enemys units )