1109 replies to this topic

[myster]

AI spamming units is actually quite unrealistic.. like Lord Faramir said, it would be way cooler to have units gather an army and then attack... this way you would have to think well about attacking and defending cos maybe when you were attacking with your big army.. the ai would do the same and you need to defend your base.

[Myrdin]

i would like to see AI do two things : 1 time to time gather armies, like was mentioned,
2, sending raid groups of max 4 batalions of units, to haras you ( for harasing is what players do )

this way you would get instant action, not just " silence " before enemy gets army, and at the same time not " busy times " when he sends something on you all the time

he could lets say 20 minutes slowly gather army, and during that he would send small group raids on you, ( for example he builds 3 archers, soo one will be preserved, two sended on rush, and so on, till he gets slowly to lets say 10 batalions army )

[Devon]

That's another recommendation I have for Rob: work on the AI. Make it so that they mass their forces then hit you in one massive attack, like a siege.

Unfortunatly, ai is one of the hardest aspects to code it will take forever (I think anyway) to put something like this in and would only happen after factions and campaign are finished.

That would add a deep aspect of realism to it. I've always liked the battlefield wars: two big armies line up on the field and charge each other wildly is my kinda thing. Not shadow tactics with people hiding in trees, shooting you with bows. Nazgul and Eagles could tie into the battlefield too.

It comes up over and over again, but thats personal preference. Mordor might mass huge armies, but factions like mirkwood and gondor and harad rely a lot on "shadow tactics" to win. Armies did that all the time too...guerilla warfare is very good way to win.

[Captain of Arnor]

The Rangers relied on shadow tactics in Gondor, not really the Knights or the Swordsmen. Ambushes, I wouldn't call Shadow Tactics. The Elves mostly used bows anyway, so it's natural for them to hide before attacking. Their advantage was in staying hidden, so that's what they should do with their AI. They should position multiple different units of archers around the map and utilize natural choke points and narrow corridors for attack: like, say your unit is charging through a valley or something in Mirkwood, you should need to watch out for Elves all over the cliffs or in the trees.

I know AI would take ages, and I would only want it to be done after the entire campaign and the remoddling: I'm just saying it would make a supremely interesting aspect to this mod in perticular since every other mod for this game I've ever looked at has never even considered this an option and it would draw alot of people to it. Either way, wether or not the AI bit happens, I'm positive this is going to turn out as the best player made mod in the BFME series. The sheer amount of changes, the options, the work done with Arnor alone makes it amazing. But the fact that everything in the game is being reworked, and reskinned? All the extra powers? RJ-ROTWK > all other mods. Lawl.

[Rafv Nin IV]

I'd beg to differ about Harad being a shadow faction. It's pretty tough to hide a Mumakil.

Combo hordes are also good in use with the Undermine power for Dwarves, because if you have triple guardian battalians, you can get three times as many dwarves into mines to rush the enemy.

I never have understood why combo hordes should get discounts when upgrading. But I exploit that all the time.

Edited by Ravnin IV, 14 April 2008 - 03:23 AM.

[Scryer]

I second Ravnin's point about Harad. They seem more like the 'support' faction that works its way up to the mumakil. They might se some Guerrila (I did not spell that right...) tactics but I would say that Harad doesn't put a lot of focus into it. If anything, I would compare Harad/Rhun to Mordor because they can hold their own against assaults and still build up their army.

Now, back on topic...

I think that Angmar's heroes need to be redone.... Especially the WK and Karsh.

Edited by Scryer, 14 April 2008 - 04:32 AM.

[Myrdin]

before we get bag to topic - Try to combine army of Rhun wariors ( tier 2 barracks, elite infantry ) and Haradrim Guard ( tier 2 barracks, one of two diferent elite ranged units )

I swear you ( for i have won with this several times ) that they do not need much stealth, they range weapons cower for it more then expectional.
and i dont think mumakil is that good, he needs some dmg buff, wery high dmg buff, for it shall be unit that is feared ( and two mumaks, have problem to take down a arnor tower - builder builded, is kinda weird )

and now to continue on with topic:

Yeah Scryer, is right, as were many other poeple - Angmar heroes need to be done ( if you guys could remodel or reskin ROGASH, for his animation was screwed up, since he was made by EA . . . seriously - its disgusting to see him move or attack )

Edited by Myrdin, 14 April 2008 - 11:35 AM.

[Uruk King]

The Angmar heros definately need a redo, my opinions:

Witch-King: ok I think

Rogash: stupidly designed, jump ability is far-fetched, maybe remove his voicework,

Karsh: I'm not sure, he seems good as a wraith hero

Hwaldar: In my opinion, a good early game hero, but being lightly armoured, he's prone to early death

Morgomir: Did someone say he was a Nazgul? I'm sorry i thought he was the pale, shrill-voiced undead moron from Warcraft.

[Srg Insane]

Lol Uruk King i agree Morgomir is one of the worst characters EA designed and im surprised that C Tolkien hasnt sued EA yet over ruining that nazgul.
I think the Witch King should get his flaming sword power for angmar, hour of the witch-king is a stupid power and need to be taken out! Now i wait to see how flammed im going to get for saying that...

[Myrdin]

I agree soo much on this it cant be even more agreed. HOUR OF WITHCKING IS STUPID !!! if it would deal at least some dmg

i propose both WK, loose it and get fire sword ability ( one terribly powerfull attack on select - like wizard blast, dmgs everyone in the front of it )

and yeh Hwaldar, could get better armor, but i think it would be more fun, if he would get doubled attack speed ( and animation redone soo it stucks wit it )

For Morgomir, well i newer really used him ( only in campaing ), EA was all " wow " over him but hes too weak, has crappy abilities, and doesnt even act " nagzhul like "
Kharsh is OK, but i think he should get summon wights ( if he already aint have it, if ye, nvm me )

[Scryer]

Here's some of my opinions on Angmar's heroes:

-I think that the WitchKing should get the Fire-Sword ability in Mordor.... Afterall, and I hate to bring this up, he used it against Gandalf (in the films) during the Minas Tirith battle. The only way that "The Hour of the WK" would be somewhat useful, would be if it affected all enemy heroes map-wide.

-For the Angmar WK, I am thinking a new level 10 power that supports the "Ice" theme that Angmar has...

-Hwaldar's leadership is kind of jiggered from ROTWK. It wouldn't affect wildmen units from the Inn so if those units are there, could his leadership still buff them?

-Morgromir needs his model redone. I'm thinking that his model should be a regular nazgul. His powers need to be redone as well....

-I would like Rogash's voice redone. I'd be happy if it were even changed to normal troll grunts because his current voice is very uncomfortable to play with.

[Uruk King]

I agree. Something Ice-themed. Similar to Gandalf's Wizard-blast but turns surrounding units to ice.

[Myrdin]

suggestion

Ice Prison :

do you know how hero " earthquake " works ? if ya than its good. if not try to use it

Witchkings steed, stand on his legs ( . . . i hope you know how i mean this, for i dont know how to interpret that in English ) not the front ones. You see " icy fog " starts to gather around his cepter ( or what the hell he holds in his second hand ).
Then the steed bash down the ground, and ice like flood spreads on the ground, instantly freezing any land units aroud ( thats why i told you about the Eguake spell, to see how the dmg flows in the radius ).
DONT AFFECT HEROES.

This power doest deal dmg, but it freezes them 2x longer then the freez that have sorcerrers
The best thig about this is that they WOULD BE wurnareable, soo you can kill them, but they cant fight back.
The radius would be medium, soo for example short rageed units like rhudaur axethrowers, would freeze too, but for example rangers, who have much bigger range, would be untouched.


This is just suggestion, for i d like something diverse, the normal dmg or debuff spell

[TowerGuard418]

The Witch King could launch a toned down ice missle like the one from the fortress that would do damage in the small area the missle directly hit, freeze surrounding enemies, and cause fear in the enemies that were not effected by the direct attack. He deserves a cool power like this, considering all the damage he did.

[Scryer]

I'm going to have to go with Myrdin's idea on this one because I just don't like any variation of Angmar's fortress power for a hero. It's too cookie-cutter for me *(not that I can really say anything due to my Saruman suggestions, hehehe)*. I think that maybe Myrdin;s power idea could add a bonus to other friendly units (like the Frozen Land pp power). But this could be over-powering it...

[Captain of Arnor]

The Witch-King definately needs some freezing powers. I mean, he's the lord of Angmar, the relm of Ice and evilness. I definately connect ice with evil more then I do fire. Cold = death, warmth/heat = life. That's the way I've always thought of it. Hell, maybe that's why I like Angmar so much more then Mordor...heh.

Anyways, yeah, The Witch-King sure does deserve some reworking. Karsh is an awesome hero, he works well if you really know how to use him. Morgomir...I loathe him. Seriously, as a Lord of the Rings book fan, the inclusion of Morgomir makes me sad. The only other Nazgul named besides The Witch-King was Khamul, who was the second strongest. For them to go in and create a name and a background for a character who wasn't even created...they're trying to add to the lore, I think, and it's not right. EA sucks anyways. Their communication with the fans is no good, when they make a new game they just say 'to hell with all our old stuff: let's focus on the money' and they're trying to buy out every other game company on earth so we have no choice but to go to them when we want to buy a game. I'll tell you this much: I don't want to buy games from a company who has no compassion for their fans and won't even release wether or not they're considering another expansion/game in the series for one of their most popular works.

How the hell did I get onto that?...but yeah. I'd love to see Angmar revamped like the Elves. Maybe not with the minifactions and all that good stuff, but with some diehard upgrades and reskins. Make an Arnor VS Angmar match truly epic.

[Myrdin]

i agree with you on both : EA cares little for theyr fans
and yeh, i would love to see Angmar reworked, soo there could be some " epic " smash and slice " fights. For angmar is one of ma fawourites, i would love to see him pimped a bit, the weird " this trolls, that trolls " thing is weird anyway ( especially hill trolls are weird ).
I like the wolfes, but they should come in much bigger hordes like 10-12 in a batalion ( same goes for riderless wargs of Isen )

it be cool if Karhs could get Summon Barrow den spell ( it would spawn wigths to attack enemies in medium range and deal the " melting aura" to nearby enemies like Karsh does - replacing the current summon wights )

angmar should get more " evil touch " - means some reskinning if possible

[Captain of Arnor]

Ooooh, well...hmm...you know how Isengard has the Warg Sentry building to defend themselves? What if Angmar had something like a Dire Wolf Sentry? Or even a Wraith Sentry? That would indeed be cool...

And I've decided I'm basically boycotting EA until they release either another patch for ROTWK, or another expansion, or BFME 3. None of which seem likely. All because of how horrible they treat the loyal buyers...it's pretty sad, actually, that we keep giving them money even when they rip us off. We go out, we buy a game, we play it and we expect some type of updates or something. Patches, expansion packs, small things like that. BFME 2 is the only one to get an expansion pack and, what, two patches were released for BFME2 and ROTWK together? BFME2 has been out since like, 06. That's not right.

[Myrdin]

i have to opone you at this

what do you expect form patches ?

definition of patch in simple lines - its created for bugg fixing and balance !

thats it, nothing more nothing less, if you get some more stuff like new maps, thats just a bonus.

for bfme there were all togather 4 patches at least, repairing and custimezing the game for multiplayer ( mostly ), and patch 1,05 was the biggest ever released for BFME2, reinstall BFME, patch it and open " read me " you can see like 3 sites loong bug fix, balance, and add on list.
1,06 was just fixing the net. lobby, for it has crushed time to time for no reason.
thats why it s called FINAL patch. for there is nothing more to repair/balance, out i personally liked the patch 1,05 most for it made hero/unit balances good, hereos were not OP nor easy kill after this

for ROTWK i think it still needs at least one more patch - there is 2,02 unoficial, which is made by comunity, especially fixing balance thread, for Clan Wars. As much as i like it ( readed the " read me ", it consist of pretty nice fixes ) its still not announced by EA as oficial one ( faggot EA, they screw up, and when someone fixes, they wont even bother to use it ).
soo basically this is how it works with patching

[Captain of Arnor]

You can say what you want, but there is much more they could do with patches and fixes. Even small balance changes (the Noldor in the original EA version of the game were still way too strong and the trample of most, if not all, cavalry was somewhat underpowered, even after the patches.) EA just has crappy customer service all around and no argument anyone here can mount will change that in the least. And they get all hyped up about a series, you're like 'OMG THIS IS GONNA ROCK.' Admittedly, it does rock...but then you start trying to find out more about the next game in a series, or updates that are coming or something and they just shrug it off...but oh well. They made the BFME series, so I will try to lessen my grudge against them.

But seriously, when I went into Gamestop to buy ROTWK, the guy looked at it and he was like 'I've been meaning to check this one out!' Then he looked down and saw the logo and said 'Aww, crap. EA...nevermind.'

Edited by Lord_Faramir, 17 April 2008 - 10:39 PM.