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#41 adummy

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 04:26 PM

Strider, asking these things are for PM's or actually looking.

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#42 witchkingshour

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 02:44 AM

*moved here from new topic* /Naz

Ok I was just making this topic for really the best solutions for it. I like the spellbook leadership options like Eye of Sauron 50% damage and armor and expierience, and rallying call, elven Wood, tainted land, etc. But for Heroes leadership, I think we should change it so we can benefit from multiple heroes leadership, cause from what I understand, it doesn't stack. I always have Faramir, Boromir and Aragorn together with my army but it's always the same leadership. Does anyone have any ideas?

Edited by Nazgûl, 16 September 2007 - 01:40 AM.

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#43 zachdaddy_3000

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 02:48 AM

Um, I'm pretty sure Naz and crew have already redone heroes' leaderships for the 4.5 release. Unless I read it wrong? :good:
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#44 witchkingshour

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 03:47 AM

Oh alright.. Well this topic was pointless then lol.
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#45 Nazgûl

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Posted 16 September 2007 - 01:39 AM

Ok I was just making this topic for really the best solutions for it. I like the spellbook leadership options like Eye of Sauron 50% damage and armor and expierience, and rallying call, elven Wood, tainted land, etc. But for Heroes leadership, I think we should change it so we can benefit from multiple heroes leadership, cause from what I understand, it doesn't stack. I always have Faramir, Boromir and Aragorn together with my army but it's always the same leadership. Does anyone have any ideas?

Not bad thoughts at all... But I'm not sure the stacking would work that good. Having too much bonuses might make the units go "yo-yo" (up and down) too much in power. Sure, you'll fight better with a strong leader, but having several don't make you superman :)

What we are aiming for though is to have heroes give leadership just to "their" units...
- Gandalf for all MotW units
- Aragorn for all Gondor units
- Boromir for most Gondor units
- Faramir for Ithillien Rangers only
- Theoden for all Rohan units
- Eomer for Rohirrim only
- Eowyn for Peasants only

Kind of like that (to take one faction as an example), but this will most likely not be finished until Beta V, since I haven't even given these thoughts to Sul yet :blink: Anyway, this would make the concept of multiple heroes more useful than just having more "tanks".

Edited by Nazgûl, 16 September 2007 - 01:43 AM.

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#46 Sûlherokhh

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Posted 16 September 2007 - 01:43 AM

Hehe, half of those mentioned are already in the game since the last public beta. And some more i am already trying out testwise. I'll tell you exactly for the next wip. That's gonna be a big list of things to check, Chris! :)

It seems we have, as most of the time, had thoughts along the very same line. :blink:

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#47 Nazgûl

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Posted 16 September 2007 - 01:44 AM

:) I know, that's what makes this delegation of coding from me to you rather easy most of the time :blink:

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#48 Guest_Guest_someone_*_*

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Posted 29 September 2007 - 08:45 PM

How about, all good factions get all good heroes, and evil gets all evil heroes. And there is an option in the lobby of the hero limit, i'd recommend the limit at the most is 12 and 9 at the least.

#49 Nazgûl

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Posted 29 September 2007 - 09:38 PM

lol, that was probably the most stupid suggestion yet... Sorry, I don't mean to sound blunt, but... you can't just pop in here after 10 months of mod production and be serious about such a suggestion? That would be like killing 25% of what this mod stands for... :)

Tip: Read up on the mod, and play it a lot (when Beta 4.5 is out) to get a feel for what we're doing, and don't make suggestions that are too far out. This was probably one of the most crazy ones yet...



And for crying out loud - REGISTER. I hate talking to "incognitos" ;)

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#50 Nazgûl

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 04:48 PM

Wow, no activity in here for 1 year :p

Anyway... I was thinking. Why - I mean why really - do we need the level ups of the Heroes?
I mean, leveling up for units and Structures are one thing. But where is the logic behind Gandlaf spawning from the fortress and NOT knowing how to kick ass with his magic at once? The guy's a friggin Maiar for crying out loud :shiftee: Same with all others like Aragorn and all the way to Bilbo too for that matter. Why shouldn't all heroes have all powers from start? They're legends in Middle Earth, well most of them... :p

My "real" point with this is another though... By always having heroes at lvl 10, I could place them in ANY structure in the faction as I see fit. But if I keep the leveling up, they will all reset to lvl 1 when respawning outside the fortress. The fortress keep is the only structure that supports maintained levels at the time of "passing" :p

So, with this logic, I could place all Rohan heroes in Golden Hall, which was my intention from the start. And all Harad heroes in the Harad Palace, Easterling heroes in Rhûn fortress, Hobbit heroes in Hobbit House, Brand in the Dale Barracks... and so on. Just like Treebeard is always in the Moot and Captain Jackson is always in the Tavern. Yeah, you get the picture :)


I'm strongly leaning towards this, but I just wanted some input before I do it =)

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#51 Floris

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 05:13 PM

That's a good idea.But Saruman and Gandalf and Elrond and those guys who are real powerfull, at what structure are they "build".I dont see Saruman coming out of his Uruk-pits.Or Elrond from the barracks....
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#52 Nazgûl

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 05:18 PM

The major Heroes would naturally STAY in the fortresses. This is only meant to do two things:
1) Make it possible to move SOME heroes to more fitting structures, and
2) Increase "realism" and logic =)

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#53 elbenmensch

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 05:38 PM

Really good idea.
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#54 Nazgûl

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 06:41 PM

;) I have no idea why I haven't thought about this before... it's soo simple really, and it makes agreat impact on the essence of SEE.

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#55 Mordor Slayer

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 10:34 PM

I don't know, I really like the RPG feeling of having to level up your heroes. I guess it would be a good solution, but I wouldn't love it. Plus it would make an early-game hero spam way too easy. It's logical and realistic, but it wouldn't work from a gameplay perspective.

Can't you give some kind of fortres function to all buildings?

Edited by Mordor Slayer, 15 August 2008 - 10:37 PM.

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#56 Nazgûl

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 10:46 PM

No that's the bummer part... You can't have more than one fortress in the faction and that structure alone is the only one supporting respawn at the same level. You'd still have level ups for all other things but heroes. I just don't want them all cramped into the same fortress...

And when you think about it, the leveling up of heroes are unlogical indeed. But I agree on the playability as it "pro-longues" the useage of heroes and makes the leveling up a part of their own development. It's just that it's hindering how I use the faction in other aspects...

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#57 Mordor Slayer

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 10:58 PM

But what about the early-game hero spam? Imagine two Nazgul coming at you with their fellbeast in the first minute of the game? They could just whipe you out. What would be an awesome solution is that you let them all start at lvl 10, but meanwhile giving a prerequisite to every power. Kinda like the library idea we had a while back ago. The more I think about it, the more I get convinced that it's the perfect solution. Just buy the power you want and bam, you've got it. This would even expand the RPG aspect while solving your problem!
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#58 SovietSoldier

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 11:14 PM

i agree with nazgul.but,what about legolas or gimli?would they stay at the fortress?or would they come out of barracks?
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#59 Pixel

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 11:19 PM

I dont think the plan is to move all/most heroes to various buildings, but for some heroes alike Suladân wich would possibly built from a haradrim structure instead of the Rhûn fortress.

#60 Nazgûl

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 12:04 AM

Exactly! ^ Like I said... only SOME heroes would be moved. But for the removal of Level ups, it would be ALL or NONE. SO this is about two things really =p

1) Move some heroes to other structures:
- Theoden, Eomer and Eowyn to Golden Hall
- Suladân and other Harad heroes to Harad Palace
- Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin to Hobbit House

Just like Captain Jackson is in the Tavern

2) And by doing this THESE heroes would be level 1 each time they die OR I code them to be lvl 10 from start. By doing THAT, I would have to code ALL heroes to be lvl 10 for consistancy and balance purposes.

However MS ir right... it could disrupt early game as some heroes have really powerful attributes that cuold make for an early victory... I'll have to give this some more thought... :/ The library idea was good, but rather hefty work compared to what it is to just remove level ups....

Edited by Nazgûl, 16 August 2008 - 12:05 AM.

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