2298 replies to this topic

[CLAlstar]

And how would anyone but the designer of the mission know that?

 

Clarification: Im not a mission designer. Im simply a person who was testing while creating the patterns of how to complete any misison.

[X1Destroy]

That mission is still pretty much playable. The key is.........never use Morales for anything and put him inside a halftrack, then wall up with battle bunkers till the end. It's silly design, but it works.

The swarm of brutes can be beaten by massing Vultures and have them guard the miners one after another. To kill the bases best stuffs are buratino, desolator and never forget terror drones.

Capping Epsilon buildings? I never thought of that.

Edited by X1Destroy, 31 December 2016 - 08:27 PM.

[Black/Brunez]

Another way to beat this mission is simply spamming Foxtrots and using them to destroy the Cloning Vats, on a similar way to what can be done on Beautiful Mind  :V

[Solais]

I tried doing that, since that's how I did Beautiful Mind, but had no money.

 

For Morales I merely walled him in, but that's when the Invaders attacked. Didn't know that the halftrack won't be targeted then. (Again, somewhat of a problem.) Tried using the vultures, but simply they weren't enough. The terror drones is good idea, I often use them, but I often forget to use them. I think for Easy, I wouldn't have invaders and such attacking in the first minute, or even have them attack during the first half of the mission, and probably I'd ease up the attacks in the second half. Don't make the AI brain dead, but maybe just a little bit slower.

 

I'd recommend the same for Firewalking, make the mission slower on easy, less attacks, and make the Allies and Epsilon fight others more than ganging up on the player.

 

Alstar: I know, but even testers often know more than first time players. I started out in QA myself, and noticed this same problem, so now I usually try to "cycle" testers after some time elapsed.

 

 

Edit: Btw, if it wasn't clear, I might sound angrier when posting my initial feedback of missions, because I make sure to post the moment I finished them in one way or another, just so I convey the feeling the missions cause in a casual player. I think the feelings are quite important feedback as well. And when it comes to the later evaluation of the missions with a more clearer head, whenever I say "no problems" those are usually the missions that I could do on the first try, which I think is something that should be possible for the casual players on Easy. I know that it might kinda sound disrespectful, I understand that in a way, Easy difficulty can feel like it "butchers" the very essence of the missions, but well, I feel that the only way to mitigate the problem of the lack of a saving system (which unfortunately does discourage people from playing this awesome mod, despite how I tried to recommend it to my friends constantly) for the casual player.

Edited by Solais, 31 December 2016 - 09:37 PM.

[Damfoos]

Shroedinger's Morales, anyone?

 

I've been keeping him inside the Halftrack during the entire mission, and when the countdown stopped, I've relased him only to immediately load back. The X-Mig flew by, and the script worked, but Morales was still on the battlefield. I CBA finishing the mission, so I sent him to death instead of using him in assault, and his death didn't trigger the mission failure. 

Stop, drop and lol, gringo!

Edited by Damfoos, 31 December 2016 - 11:31 PM.

[Solais]

Did Exist to Exit, using the advices. First I lost because putting Morales in a halftrack makes him even more suspectible to damage, so I didn't do the second time. It seems using that tactic above pretty much neutered the AI and I had nothing else to worry about. I still think that the start is really hard for a casual.

 

Tried Firewalking after that with the advices... they mostly worked I guess, I finally started making progress, managed to somehow attack out of my base despite the ENDLESS and NEVER STOPPING assaults... then the timer ran out. There's just not enough time! Make it like Puppet Master, don't have timer at all, let me actually build up my forces! Also, none of those units showed up from Martinoz' advices, what I had trouble with is my power being sabotaged all the time, despite having dogs and sensor towers, but the dogs just die all the fighting since they just run into everything, and I also have no time to always look at my base to attack any spies. Skipping this mission now.

 

So my suggestions for Firewalking on Easy:

 

- Make attacks less frequent

- Make Allies and Epsilon fight more instead of attacking the player

- Either make the timer 3 times longer (I think the mission can easily reach 1 hour from my estimate, so 15 minutes is not enough at all. Yes, it is actually 30 minutes, but the timer is 2x fast, so 3 times that would be around 1 hour 30 minutes, which translates to 45 minutes), or don't have a timer at all, like in Puppet Master

Edited by Solais, 01 January 2017 - 12:59 AM.

[Solais]

So, tried Juggernaut, it seemed crazy. I completely forgot to be game savvy to know that the Chinese outposts will fail on the other side, while the Epsilon was savvy enough to use dreadnoughts to take out my garrisoned buildings, it started to become hectic, so many units that even my developer PC started lagging, which it never did (besides Huehuecoyotl), things are happening... then the game crashed with standard Yuri's Revenge fatal error message that I haven't seen since NPatch...

 

Yeah, I wonder if this is one of those crashes that was fixed in Ares 0.Cp1. Maybe I should wait for the patch for MO.

 

 

Edit: Juggernaut completed on Easy! This mission IS INSANE! I don't even know how I survived! I had my nuclear plant destroyed 3 times, my palace about the same, I had to rebuild many times, at the end, the last Kirov even took out my Conyard! Enemies were coming everywhere, but fear not, because I had MASS WOLFHOUNDS SURROUNDING EVERYTHING! Holy shit, this mission is insane, I love it!

 

What's with all Act 2 5th missions being awesome??

 

There was a point where the game actually almost crashed again, it alt-tabbed itself, but the crash window didn't show up, so I tabbed back and continued.

 

And with this, the final evaluation time, for the time being!

 

Soviet Act 2 Campaign, on Easy, so far:

 

The Raven: Complete. No problems, mostly because the mission is actually a cutscene mostly.

 

Alive and Awake: Complete. I don't particularly like this mission. While the Kirov mechanic gives the player some agency, it feels like I don't have enough units.

 

Exist to Exit: Complete. Problematic. Info is given about the Viruses, but not about Invaders. First half seems a little fast. There are ways to make this mission much easier in the second half, but no way a first time player would know that, and without that, the mission feels close to impossible.

 

Firewalking: Skipped. Enemies are too relentless and the player is given too little time to build up properly.

 

Juggernaut: Complete. CRAZY! It seriously feels overwhelming, and I can see the casual player panicking and even giving up. I beat it using mass Wolfhounds only because I read it in a comment on a youtube video of the mission. Though, the mission definitely gives hints about the Wolfhounds. Not to mention, having all sort of combined tech given, so for now, it seems to be an okay mission for a casual, and at that a really crazy and adrenaline pumping one! Might be prone to crashes.

 

 

Overall I feel the Soviet campaign is the least polished out of the three Act 2 ones, at least, so far.

 

Well, I guess that's me for now. I'll likely check out the missions again after a patch, or when new content are released for the mod.

 

Happy new year!

Edited by Solais, 01 January 2017 - 02:29 AM.

[umbracatervae]

Yes, Firewalking is so deceiving.

 

At first i thought it will be a mission when i and rebel Allies race each other to capture Epsilon Psychic Amplifier, but in reality it was me against Allies and Epsilon. That's make i think the Allies are already mind controlled, they only attacking each other by script however

[Damfoos]

I'm starting to think there's a bug with scripts which depends on how you launch the mission: when you launch it from campaign menu everything works as intended, and when you automatically get to said mission after completing the previous one, some scripts bug out or don't work. When I played Exist to Exit first time, I got to it after completing Awake and Alive, and it was somewhat easy, but when I launched it yesterday through campaign menu the attacks were more frequent, I've encountered the aforementioned Brute attack wave which I haven't seen before. I had no problems with Firewalking, even though I had only 1 minute left when I captured the device, and the first half of the mission I was busy capturing the Allied base, instead of fighting Epsilon. But even then, Epsilon attacks were really small, 2-3 Lashers + 1-2 Gattlings, small Initiate+Archer groups and random Brutes and Duneruders (Drakuv'd them all). US attacks were the most annoying ones, because of damn Abramses and Riot Troopers, so when I captured the base things became much easier. But I was playing this mission right after Exist to Exit, so I'm not sure if things won't be worse if I'll try to launch it separately from the mission selection menu. Maybe that's why you find it difficult while I don't, maybe some scripts simply refused to work and I had less attacks against me? Need to check it again then.

Edited by Damfoos, 01 January 2017 - 08:33 AM.

[Damfoos]

Alright, played it again, now launched through campaign selection menu. There's no difference, everything works fine and I was able to capture the thing in 5 minutes before the activation. To break through Epsilon installations I used the Rhino/Tesla/SCUD reinforcements and 5-6 Catastrophes with Desolators inside, and a nuclear strike cleared the entrance to the base. Then I captured one of freshly rebuilt Bio Reactors and deployed my expansion there, eventually killing every dangerous unit on my way with Sentry Guns (units like Adepts, Marauders and Desolators). What I find strange, is that how you don't have to clear the area or hold the device, you may as well rush it with Engineers and win, even though the device is still well defended by Yuri's base. IMO, it makes no sense even though the thing is invincible, I'd rather disable the off-map reinforcements for both enemy factions and have player to clear the area afterwards.

Also, there's nothing wrong with Allies attacking the player instead of attacking Epsilon. Look at this situation from Allied perspective: you are assaulting the Amplifier to gain control over it for yourselves, and then Soviets appear to take it instead! Will you let them grow strong enough to do it, or you will try to kill the threat before it is too late, and help your allies to capture the objective (if you look in top-left corner of the map you'll notice American reinforcements constantly trying to break through the Amplifier's defence)?

It is important to capture the American base because it gives access to a rich ore field and saves you from constant Allied attacks from the left. The tech tree is broken though: you can build Barracudas which Allies don't have yet, you can't build Stormchildren, Abramses, Bulldogs, Siege Cadres, but instead you get access to Cavaliers and Harriers.

Edited by Damfoos, 01 January 2017 - 11:45 AM.

[Wayward Winds]

I found another way that effectively stops Epsilon cold in their offensive tracks in Exist to Exit - spam a few Terror Drones.  A handful of each along each access route = infantry can't even get close - and Epsilon Elites don't even have a chance to start mind controlling your units in sequence, tanks may get close enough to attack your base, but die from the drones before they do any real damage, Viruses have nothing to shoot at... the only thing you'll need to occasionally do is replace the odd drone lost to Brutes.  And then you've got those free Vultures to move in.

I managed to utterly halt Epsilon with only a basic base; Construction Yard, two Tesla Reactors, a Barracks, War Factory and Airfield (and the latter wasn't even necessary).

(As for those Invaders?  Just train ten or so Flak Troopers.  They're perfectly safe against Viruses and Epsilon Adepts with the TDs on the prowl...)

 

Once the timer was up and Morales was "evacuated" (or not, because he was still inside that Halftrack), building up the rest of the base was alarmingly easy with that defensive setup.  If I'd known the mission wasn't going to be ended with Morales escape, I'd have done it earlier.

 

Still having trouble with the Firewalking unholy alliance though.  Epsilon is over there, rebel scum!

[Solais]

Yeah, that's also an interesting thing I found. One would think that Invaders would cut through your units, since they have anti-infantry lasers, but they are incredibly weak against AA, it's almost like a joke. But they are sure intimidating and unexpected for the first few tries.

 

I never considered capturing the Allied base in Firewalking. Maybe I'll try to build up an army of borillos with engis inside to rush them.

Edited by Solais, 01 January 2017 - 12:24 PM.

[Damfoos]

Could work too, but 5-6 Catastrophe tanks with Desolators followed by one Borillo with Engineers is the safest way - the tanks will clear the way and secure the captured territory later. Don't rush through the main entrance however, there's an undefended area in bottom-left part of the base, near the ore field. For lolz you can also leave the tech buildings and barracks untouched and get an infinite source of free infantry (incl. Spies) if you bring some Drakuvs along.

[Handepsilon]

Completed Divergence and Godsend on Easy

 

1.Divergence

 

So I kinda lost Rahn accidentally when SEAL decides to shoot him, so had to restart early. I never actually use Malver aside from finishing off those anti infantry vehicles coming near Rahn. The rest is just another Brutepocalypse, including the power plants.

 

Unfortunately a Terror Drone ate Rahn after the escort and attack to the orange Confed base. So I didn't get to exploit his ability to cause an outbreak. There are double cloning vats though, complete with a sum of 60k+ initial money, enough to fend off anything while building armies bigger than the soviet will ever manage to do. Killed orange base through chipping their defenses with a wall of magnetron, Elites, Initiates and Archer, as well as a single Mastermind. Pretty much a stalemate since everything they sent turns back against them. Meanwhile I snuck a team of engi into their base, capping their bureau and enabling me to train all sorts of infantries later even though I lost soviet conyard and barracks to kirovs after capping it.

 

 

Totally not having anything more than an Epsilon Barracks

 

Afterwards I mopped orange outpots as well as Russian reds with a team of mixed infantries, consisting Elites, Siege Cadres, Tesla Trooper, Archer, Flak Trooper, GGIs, SEALs, and I don't even remember the rest (didn't get to make Pyros sadly). Then I rolled the red base with all kinds of infantries I can muster, including Virus and Sniper, all in massive numbers.

 

My only complains? The fact that I have to guard the chronosphere from attacks of.... no one. The soviets are so wiped out they can't send anything to stop me. Not even paradrops or off screen reinforcements

 

Then comes the objective to wipe out the soviets, which I've done already BEFORE I capped the chronosphere

 

 

2. Godsend

 

Nothing too hard and nothing too easy. But at least warn me beforehand that the Irkalla powers my radar! I made it took too much punishment it reshrouds my radar and turns it off, and then turns it on after it regens enough health. I lost all the images of the Shield Command + Engies though. Fortunately I'm able to memorize it enough.

 

The mission ends with the Irkalla going derp on the Skyray cannon and me being helpless to move it away, before the ship wipes out my forces within one miliseconds

[Terminal Velocity]

I've been playing around with E17 Godsend.

Spoiler

Take all your infantry and Irkalla and go to the right,.Quickly destroy the Shield Command and one Patriot that's in your way.Then start advancing to the north. We'll need 5 Chrono Legionaries.

Two of them should be where the red arrow is, another three - in the green circle.

Keep going north, remove Patriots with Chronos, Irkalla will kill everything else. Once we reach the base, our target is to kill those two AA defences.

We need 1 chrono for each of them.Take 3 chronos and go for the Shield Command.They will be killed, but they should be able to 'remove' the Shield Command for a bit. This will turn the force shield off for a short duration, now is the time to go for AA defences. Irkalla will do the rest of the work.

 

[Solais]

Dang, I thought I took a screenshot, but it seems I did not, but I had a similar, if not larger army with the two heroes protecting the Chronosphere. Divergence seems hard if you don't know what to do and don't do driller + engi attacks against enemy bases. But if you do that, thanks to the huge ore field near your base, you can build and insanely large army to mop up the map.

[Handepsilon]

It's not that hard. The key to not losing there is simply

 

1. Mass AA on your base and cover up base for kirov, some other units for others

2. Spooks and Stingers on entrances for infiltrator

3. Make a blockade full of mind controllers and cover support + siege engines aka magnetrons right in front of the enemy entrances

 

Then you have a well defended base as well as grinder materials (enemy will foolishly charge through, and the chaos and Unit Lost announcement will simply be the enemy troopers fighting each others)

 

First time doing the mission, I simply use a Heroic ranked Rahn solo to charge through the southern side of the base (hey, who needs a barracks when you got Rahn to make an army for you?). Woulda blown that ConYard up if the rocketeers didn't show up lol

[Solais]

Watching the coop missions on youtube... is it me or that they seem like to have kinda lost their place in the story, or something? Because the original ones seemed to follow the main story closely, while the new ones sometimes just seem to be still depicting the Allies vs Soviet conflict, with some technologies used that are only developed in Act 2, like in Needlehead, where the Americans use Athena Cannons when they are "invented" in the mission Ghost Hunt, when the Allies are mostly fighting Epsilon now and can't really go to the US. I guess their story descriptions are not yet in, but they seem to be a lot more disconnected from the main story unlike the first batch.

[Damfoos]

This bugs me as well, some equipment is in use when wasn't even invented according to story. The HQ coop mission (Research Stroke was it?) features weapons not yet invented by Epsilon (like Colossus), not to mention HQ is supposed to be an army guarding the main base in Antarctica, not a main strike army.
Do they even exist at this point?

IMO, Needlehead is just a 2v2 skirmish vs a team of AI, the only difference from ordinary skirmish are differently armed Stormchildren, several tech tree restrictions and pre-built bases with reinforcements for Russian players. There's no objective, just "destroy enemy team". Factions could've been swapped and it wouldn't make any difference, that's why I don't like this mission.

Edited by Damfoos, 01 January 2017 - 06:47 PM.

[Handepsilon]

The HQ coop mission (Research Stroke was it?) features weapons not yet invented by Epsilon (like Colossus), not to mention HQ is supposed to be an army guarding the main base in Antarctica, not a main strike army.
Do they even exist at this point?

Well, Shadow Tank and Irkalla exists in campaign, and it says we play as HQ