5129 replies to this topic

[Solais]

perhaps instead of a faction with tunnels, I propose tunnels to be used in a Tech Building.

 

Tech Subway Station. :3

Tech Teleporter. >:3

Tech Bloatick Tunnel (non-humans only) )>

 

Tunnels are not capturable though, if I recall right.

[StolenTech]

I don't think that's his point, recently a "tunnel" mechanic was introduced into Ares and has not been utilized yet by MO.

[Speeder]

There are no plans to use that mechanic for now.

[FELITH]

elevator for indoor campaign.

[Solais]

I don't think that's his point, recently a "tunnel" mechanic was introduced into Ares and has not been utilized yet by MO.

 

That's what I'm referring to, Generals-like Tunnel building system.

[TeslaCruiser]

Has been a while since 3.3.2 release and I have some balance suggestions so far. I would like to put those here in a summary way.

1- Roadrunner nerf: Because it is tanky enough to run inside enemy armies and delete infantry with ease. It is also really good at killing miners and any kind of armor really including heavy armored things.
The ball requires a general stat tweak. An armor type nerf - crush ability removal - less speed

2- Sync magic thing could use a few extra seconds to its countdown. Right now you can rush the loom and spam infantry until you get a mob -mostly kekframes- and use them at a time where your enemy is unlocking the heavy weapons making the whole thing quite unfair. Not to mention how tanky sync kekframes are. Those guys could also use a bit less armor.

3- GI IFV needs a 0.5 range reduction (=6) and probably a RoF or damage output nerf. Both striker and archon outrange and outmaneuver everything early game. Its weapon is also quite versatile. In short, it gets too much for the price of one GI which is merely 100

4- Hummingbird's effect is way too strong for what it cost. It needs to last less -a lot less- or get a reduction on its AoE -a drastic one-
For any sub-faction who relies on ground units, it is a gg when these things start flying. Making the game less about skill and more about playing allies and rushing T4.

 

5- Allied Jets, all basic jets can snipe tech using low numbers. It is probably the biggest 3.3.2 balance issue. The community has diverse ideas about how to fix it... my own idea is the straight one: make jets bad against tech structures. This way they can be good against structures -which I assume is intended- but incapable of the current 'lul no tech 4 u' meme

6+ Epsilon Gattling tank needs a bit more of damage output as a consequence of 3.3.2 epsilon nerfs. Epsilon now relies more on these tanks and they are lacking the firepower to serve its purpose.

 

7+ Invader damage is too low. Its weapon is bad against everything. A bit more damage against infantry could make it a better investment. Right now it gets destroyed by one-two flak troopers/ggis/archers/knightframe

Edited by TeslaCruiser, 04 October 2017 - 02:42 AM.

[GuardianGI]

4- Hummingbird's effect is way too strong for what it cost. It needs to last less -a lot less- or get a reduction on its AoE -a drastic one-

For any sub-faction who relies on ground units, it is a gg when these things start flying. Making the game less about skill and more about playing allies and rushing T4.

 

5- Allied Jets, all basic jets can snipe tech using low numbers. It is probably the biggest 3.3.2 balance issue. The community has diverse ideas about how to fix it... my own idea is the straight one: make jets bad against tech structures. This way they can be good against structures -which I assume is intended- but incapable of the current 'lul no tech 4 u' meme

I don't really have much problems about the other issues, except for these two.

As of now, I don't really see how you can tech rush as Allies all the way to T4 without killing yourself, to be honest. Especially when you consider that there's always a high chance of tech snipe by T1-2 rush or jets, which brings me to my next point.

 

All allied jets can snipe tech with low numbers? I agree that most allied jets can snipe tech, except for one, which is the Harriers.

Both US and PF have a huge problem with tech sniping, and US especially, because Stormchilden could potentially blow anything on the ground to scrap while requiring insane pools of AA to stop because they are too fast to even intercept most of the time, while I understand that PF have a pretty weak T1 (and even t2) in terms of ground firepower to make up for it.

[TeslaCruiser]

by rush i mean a fast unlock not an actual 'as fast as possible' thing that in general doesn't work.
But the idea is this: player a builds a bigger army as consequence of good macro and map control. Player b builds T4. Player b wins.
I understand the 'higher tech = advantage' thing but the benefits of allied T4 is by far the strongest in the game. The backbone beign the HB.

Edited by TeslaCruiser, 04 October 2017 - 02:07 PM.

[TeslaCruiser]

About the harriers... unfixable bug means jet meta is abusing a bug so yes, harriers can kill tech using low numbers.
Normally you don't want to use bugs to win since those are supposed to eventually be fixed. But this thing still in the game so jets should be balanced having the extra damage in mind.
Sometimes bugs can add to the game and I personally think this one is a fun 'feature´since it adds to the skill ceiling and requires multiple actions to work. Yet a bug like this should be considered inside the balance equation. So... damage reduction against tech for all 3 basic jets.

 

You can ask Sypher or Darky about the details they are the tech snipe experts

Edited by TeslaCruiser, 04 October 2017 - 05:22 PM.

[NorthFireZ]

So about IFVs. I wouldn't mind giving a dps drop against buildings and light vehicles. However the dps vs infantry is already pretty on par with the other faction's T1 multirole vehicles. With their only advantage being the .5 range to deal with encamped infantry such as the Guardian G.I. Being able to put manuever things is kind of the point of building IFVs early game. If they get in range of any anti tank weapons, they become scrap metal. It's up to the player to keep them alive, and I don't believe removing micro elements from a game is ever a good thing.

About Jets: 10 Harriers snipe a tech building guys, I don't think double digits are 'low'. Think about that for a second. 12,000 credits in jets only, not even mentioning the air pad. This is why people build the Baracudas for EA, because of the extreme inefficiency. This is exactly what needs to happen for USA and PF, bring down the building damage. Also, reduce the black Widow duration, because it lasts way too long for almost no reason. Also, also, could we have a Baracuda modifier so it doesn't take three to kill a barracks? So people have more incentives to build them over Jets? (The Baracudas ratio to building is really weird at times.)

While we're on the topic of Barracks, can we PLEASE HAVE HEAVY ARMOR FOR PRODUCTION BUILDINGS?? I feel like they are way too vulnerable for what they are. I can understand tech buildings having light armor, but Warfactories? Really??

P.S, Make Rocketeers not useless again if jet nerfs.

[TeslaCruiser]

It is 8 harriers to kill an:

Allied Air Force Command Headquarters

American Mercury Network Uplink

European Shield Command

Pacific Front Robot Ops Control Center

Allied Experimental Warpshop

Soviet Field Bureau

Soviet Airbase

Epsilon Radar Spire

Epsilon Aerodome

 

Or are we going to ignore the existance of the extra damage bug?

Edited by TeslaCruiser, 04 October 2017 - 06:52 PM.

[TeslaCruiser]

About IFVs. I have heard the argument about 'skills' to defend broken stuff many times. Why a -0.5 is removing the micro element? if it does something is making micro more important not less. Allies have low armor but high speed plus repair vehicle they also have strong infantry and defenses. Why do they need to outrange things at T1?

[StolenTech]

don't forget Foxtrots, those things are as menacing as the other allied jets (and can be stupidly op with 3+ airfields)

[TeslaCruiser]

Did you build the soviet airbase before T3? prob not
Still, when I talk about all jets it is all jets.
All basic jets should require around 3 airfields to kill tech.

[NorthFireZ]

Remember the time that Black Eagles used to snipe Allied support structures with only four jets with the bug? You're barking up the wrong tree my dwed.

It takes 10 Harriers to kill t3 tech.

Air fields are the weakest structure over all too. Pretty much anything can kill them (Espiciallg bomb trucks.)

Now that I think about it, the biggest problem with tech sniping with jets because jets aren't very efficient vs units. Now you might say that they are fast, damaging, etc. However in the meta we are in now, I'm pretty sure it's more worth to snipe tech buildings rather than units. Its usually coming down to: sniping a few units vs stopping the production of those kinds of units. In the latter case, less jets are lost in the process of tech sniping too. (Often if you run your jets into a huddle of units, good luck getting them out.) And don't tell me losing 6 Storms to kill one or two Tier three monsters is something you want to do when the building damage is nerfed.

By the way I have a good guide line based off of the Allied tech center to modify jets with. Four foxtrots currently does around 3-4 blocks on the health bar. So, 4 Harriers should 25% Storms should do 30%, and Beagles should do 35%. Preferably Eight jets will only leave the Tech center on the bottom edge of Yellow health. This way, at least it's a soft curbing, makes it so that Allied players must do something else in order to you know, snipe.

[NorthFireZ]

About IFVs. I have heard the argument about 'skills' to defend broken stuff many times. Why a -0.5 is removing the micro element? if it does something is making micro more important not less. Allies have low armor but high speed plus repair vehicle they also have strong infantry and defenses. Why do they need to outrange things at T1?

0.5 range is a split second distance. We're not talking about anything rediculous like 1-2. Ifvs also have a tendency of closing the distance of their regular rocket range despite having a better weapon.

On another note, 0.5 range isn't broken. Instant gib is broken. Super sonic speed is broken. Invincibility is broken. Having a slight range advantage as a Gimmick at Tier one isn't broken. We already agree to dps nerfs, which is needed so that the IFV doesn't act as too much of a pressure that even kill buildings.

A uniform range means players will be less likely to move their IFVs while fighting straight up because whenever you can deal damage, you have the same chance to take damage. It's impossible to micro out of the damaging situation, espically against T1 AT infantry, thus taking out a large part of what made IFV micro so important.

[TeslaCruiser]

People tech snipe because is the best thing to do with jets. Not because jets are bad.
Jets are good at killing miners, heroes, arty...

You are also supposed to trade units in your engagements yet your mindset is about a 'clean' usage. Why do you see as a balance problem losing units to your enemy?

[NorthFireZ]

People tech snipe because is the best thing to do with jets. Not because jets are bad.
Jets are good at killing miners, heroes, arty...
You are also supposed to trade units in your engagements yet your mindset is about a 'clean' usage. Why do you see as a balance problem losing units to your enemy?

Well yes, people snipe tech because its easier and less costly than sniping units. Your bound to lose a lot of jets sniping units, but vs a tech building it's hard to say, and the reward is drastically higher.

Well, I don't have a problem with losing units. I have a problem with losing units AND because they suck ass at their jobs, they don't give me trade back. (Rocketeers for example) Jets suck ass at engaging units head on, which I suppose is kind of the point forcing people to use them carefully and in a round about way and yada yada. Anyways, probably a good change to make Jets more direct combat oriented like the Foxtrots instead of "Look at me I can click on a building mom!"

[UNSC THE CHILL OF WAR]

Why is it that most suggestions/feedbacks lead to hating allied aircraft or ifvs?

[Handepsilon]

You have to play online with the uhm... 'inner circle' in order to understand.

 

Alternatively, regarding jets :

 

My own argument : Allied Jets are speedy, capable of tech sniping, and the airstrips decreases the speed of which the jets are constructed.

Edited by Handepsilon, 05 October 2017 - 09:14 AM.