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MO 3.3 // Feedback & Suggestions (Balance, New Features, Modifications etc.)


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#4821 Zhang Jian

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Posted 15 March 2020 - 02:46 AM

fair point. I managed to test the weapon for once and apparently it's quite broken in term of damage. So yeah, no need for buffing. In fact, I think it only need to sort that Suppressor issue AND fix the glitch charge. The cost of power is deterring players, but I think that's it.

 

 

Could you explain why Suppressor converting Plasmerizer is a problem? I feel there's nothing wrong.



#4822 Zhang Jian

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Posted 15 March 2020 - 05:27 AM

AI EA always put Force Shield on its Construction Yard (as long as it has) when facing a major superweapon attack. Why not let it put Force Shield where the major superweapon actually will occur? AI is omniscient. I once used Tech Missile to strike an AI EA’s AFH (after its Construction Yard was destroyed), AI used Force Shield to protect the AFH. -- Oh, it was fooled. After the Force Shield disappeared, my Domination came. I think it’s better to set AI use Force Shield when and only when 1 it’s facing a major superweapon (and put it in the right place), 2 its Construction Yard is at low health (and put it on Construction Yard).



#4823 Handepsilon

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Posted 16 March 2020 - 08:12 AM

Could you explain why Suppressor converting Plasmerizer is a problem? I feel there's nothing wrong.

 

Same reason as to why Suppressor doesn't affect Centurion, unless they actually do, which they shouldn't because it's a very cheesy way to deal with epic unit anyways

 

I also think AI problems that intricate will never be solved unless there's a way to actually program RA2's AI that specific. Feels more like an AlexB problem


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#4824 Daffa the Mage

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Posted 16 March 2020 - 04:02 PM

 

 Could you explain why Suppressor converting Plasmerizer is a problem? I feel there's nothing wrong.

 

Practically nullified Plasmerizer too conveniently for Pacific Front. They already have Hailstorm (which sadly has received a number of nerfs) and Barracudas to deal with Plasmerizers.



#4825 Divine

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Posted 16 March 2020 - 07:47 PM

 

Could you explain why Suppressor converting Plasmerizer is a problem? I feel there's nothing wrong.

 

Same reason as to why Suppressor doesn't affect Centurion, unless they actually do, which they shouldn't because it's a very cheesy way to deal with epic unit anyways

 

I also think AI problems that intricate will never be solved unless there's a way to actually program RA2's AI that specific. Feels more like an AlexB problem

 

I think the only viable way to create a good AI for RA2 would be to make it a separate program, probably based on a hybrid system of preset rules and behaviours (ie: like a normal RTS AI), and machine learning. Said program then could play the game through multiplayer, as if it was a human player. Preset behaviours would include things such as knowing which unit counters which other unit based on their stats, or base building layout, while machine learning would be needed to recognize and counter player tactics, optimal unit management on maps, and other intricate things like that.



#4826 moming

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 04:55 AM

I am a manist of mental omega, and even did some translate work about this game. I am always willing to think about game background design than others. But something has confused me a lot, the Suppressor, actually. I couldn't understand the design of this infantry, what is the 'Negation Field'? It looks not a sci-fi character at all, and it is hard to explain how the 'Filed' works. For this infantry, I personally think the designer should care about rationality first. Here are some ideas to Improve that.
 
Instead of Negation Field, it can have a Frozen Field(Selectively spray cold air into the surroundings, or change the surrounding temperature field). Nearby the Suppressor, the infantry of player can get treatment(like frost anesthesia), the units  speed get increased (cooling the units engine) and enemy's infantry & unit are more easily be hurt(their armor becomes more brittle by low temp),  this speed control may arrange Blizzard Tank in pairs. although it not very good, but sounds more real.
 
Forgive my bad English level and probably unrealistic thinking. May the game get better.  :thumbsupxd:

Edited by moming, 21 March 2020 - 05:19 AM.


#4827 Speeder

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 10:43 AM

The idea for the unit was that it inverts the value of firepower using chrono technology. So the unit does just that, it's Red Alert. There are already other units that modify speed and armor stats.


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#4828 Tathmesh

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 01:17 PM

Red Alert Science:

- Radiation is a green curly beam that disintegrates humans
- Redirecting light to create a solid beam to destroy armored tanks
- Training dolphins to take down aircraft carriers using sonar
- Spraying tanks with ultra hot plasma that makes them impervious to bullets, mind control, and thermonuclear detonation
- A small truck can unpack into a fully automated, industrial construction center 8x its original volume
- Weaponizing magnets to destroy buildings, but somehow the vehicle it's mounted on is pulling the building toward it and not the other way around

Edited by Tathmesh, 21 March 2020 - 01:25 PM.


#4829 Qeit

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 01:08 PM

First and foremost - instead of 3.3.5 rename next update to 3.4. There will be quite a number of changes, so the update will be on different scale comparing to previous 3.3.Xs.

 

Then for units/buildings.

 

Tech tank bunkers. Tank bunkers not the best thing in the mod, partly due to fact that Epsilon options for tank bunker are not really impressive. But it's still interesting mechanic since it highly customizable.

 

Naval defensive structures. I really want some AA-guns on water.

 

Something akin to Seraph for Psi-Corps. This subfaction already got Psychic Tower, but I think that cheap, non-powered defensive structure will do them good. Even if its good only against infantry.

 

Something akin to Rig in С&С 3 for EuroAlliance. Rig may transform to Battle Base, which is pretty much your strong point anywhere on the map. Gun(s) against air and ground target, autorepair of nearby units. Considered as superunit, limited to 1. Deploys only once per life, after deployment new one can not be build until existing one destroyed.

 

New basic amphibious naval unit for Mother Russia, comrades. So that Russia becomes even more overbearing on maps with naval options (if player has money of course). Generally, it should be comparable to Rhino around level of RA3's Hammer and Stingray (well, Stingrayes were not really good on land, so, I guess, better then that level). The main problem is that the unit should be really carefully balanced.

 

Slave miners! I know, but still. Make it superunit for any subfaction (or for all 3 - it fits with any), limited to 1. That way, even if in lategame, even if only one, but there will be access to this glorius unit. I am pretty sure that after seeing one on the battlefield the enemies of New World Order ("Be one with Yuri") will surrender unconditionally and will be terrified for next games, scared of new meetings with almighty Slave Miner and ultimate desperation it brings upon its owner's enemies.

 

#SlaveMinerForPresident2020

 

P. S. I was waiting for announcement of Fifth Faction for MO today. So where is the announcement? :(


Edited by Qeit, 01 April 2020 - 01:09 PM.


#4830 Drezalnor

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 05:07 PM

First and foremost - instead of 3.3.5 rename next update to 3.4. There will be quite a number of changes, so the update will be on different scale comparing to previous 3.3.Xs.
 
Then for units/buildings.
 
Tech tank bunkers. Tank bunkers not the best thing in the mod, partly due to fact that Epsilon options for tank bunker are not really impressive. But it's still interesting mechanic since it highly customizable.
 
Naval defensive structures. I really want some AA-guns on water.
 
Something akin to Seraph for Psi-Corps. This subfaction already got Psychic Tower, but I think that cheap, non-powered defensive structure will do them good. Even if its good only against infantry.
 
Something akin to Rig in С&С 3 for EuroAlliance. Rig may transform to Battle Base, which is pretty much your strong point anywhere on the map. Gun(s) against air and ground target, autorepair of nearby units. Considered as superunit, limited to 1. Deploys only once per life, after deployment new one can not be build until existing one destroyed.
 
New basic amphibious naval unit for Mother Russia, comrades. So that Russia becomes even more overbearing on maps with naval options (if player has money of course). Generally, it should be comparable to Rhino around level of RA3's Hammer and Stingray (well, Stingrayes were not really good on land, so, I guess, better then that level). The main problem is that the unit should be really carefully balanced.
 
Slave miners! I know, but still. Make it superunit for any subfaction (or for all 3 - it fits with any), limited to 1. That way, even if in lategame, even if only one, but there will be access to this glorius unit. I am pretty sure that after seeing one on the battlefield the enemies of New World Order ("Be one with Yuri") will surrender unconditionally and will be terrified for next games, scared of new meetings with almighty Slave Miner and ultimate desperation it brings upon its owner's enemies.
 
#SlaveMinerForPresident2020
 
P. S. I was waiting for announcement of Fifth Faction for MO today. So where is the announcement? :(

Hmmmm...the new update should indeed be called 3.4 considering the level of changes that will be introduced.

Maybe,I suppose so.

I didn't get you here on the Seraph.

A Rig-type unit for Euro Alliance would be a great idea.Though Last Bastion could also benefit from it.

Please no.Russia is imposing enough as it is,comrade.

Really?!!Slave Miners?You gotta be kidding me.

Now you are going off the rails.A 5th faction?!
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#4831 Divine

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 05:42 PM

To be honest, the newly revealed gate for Epsilon doesn't look very good.



#4832 Opus Custom Tank

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 06:15 PM

First and foremost - instead of 3.3.5 rename next update to 3.4. There will be quite a number of changes, so the update will be on different scale comparing to previous 3.3.Xs.

Then for units/buildings.

Tech tank bunkers. Tank bunkers not the best thing in the mod, partly due to fact that Epsilon options for tank bunker are not really impressive. But it's still interesting mechanic since it highly customizable.

Naval defensive structures. I really want some AA-guns on water.

Something akin to Seraph for Psi-Corps. This subfaction already got Psychic Tower, but I think that cheap, non-powered defensive structure will do them good. Even if its good only against infantry.

Something akin to Rig in С&С 3 for EuroAlliance. Rig may transform to Battle Base, which is pretty much your strong point anywhere on the map. Gun(s) against air and ground target, autorepair of nearby units. Considered as superunit, limited to 1. Deploys only once per life, after deployment new one can not be build until existing one destroyed.

New basic amphibious naval unit for Mother Russia, comrades. So that Russia becomes even more overbearing on maps with naval options (if player has money of course). Generally, it should be comparable to Rhino around level of RA3's Hammer and Stingray (well, Stingrayes were not really good on land, so, I guess, better then that level). The main problem is that the unit should be really carefully balanced.

Slave miners! I know, but still. Make it superunit for any subfaction (or for all 3 - it fits with any), limited to 1. That way, even if in lategame, even if only one, but there will be access to this glorius unit. I am pretty sure that after seeing one on the battlefield the enemies of New World Order ("Be one with Yuri") will surrender unconditionally and will be terrified for next games, scared of new meetings with almighty Slave Miner and ultimate desperation it brings upon its owner's enemies.

#SlaveMinerForPresident2020

P. S. I was waiting for announcement of Fifth Faction for MO today. So where is the announcement? :(


About Seraph. That's the difference of Epsilon fanction. In my opinion fanctions should be different as possible, after all they are different fanctions.

About naval defense and new units. I am always like to see new things if they are enough balanced.

About Slave Miner. Their logic have so much issues.

#4833 Qeit

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 07:50 PM

 

 

I didn't get you here on the Seraph.

It was MO 2 basic defensive structure. Like Sentry Gun. Gatling Guns were AA only.

 

 

About Seraph. That's the difference of Epsilon fanction. In my opinion fanctions should be different as possible, after all they are different fanctions.

Well, that's true and I am agree with you, but since it will be for one subfaction only - maybe that stuff may be overlooked.

 

 

Please no.Russia is imposing enough as it is,comrade.

MOar!!!! <Insert meme pic here>

 

Now you are going off the rails.A 5th faction?!

You do remember what day today, right? :)



#4834 Zhang Jian

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 04:44 AM

 

Something akin to Seraph for Psi-Corps. This subfaction already got Psychic Tower, but I think that cheap, non-powered defensive structure will do them good. Even if its good only against infantry.

 

 

How about my idea "Risen Caustic Column" (T1 anti-armor) for all Epsilon? See the details here: https://forums.revor...36#entry1103653



#4835 Drezalnor

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 01:37 PM

Put your ideas in a spoiler first.
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#4836 Opus Custom Tank

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 12:52 AM

Here is some of my thoughts:

- Buff Chrono Legionnaire. Really, do anyone even use then in multiplayer?
- Make Charon's cannon to affect barrells. It came to me when I play Hysteria mission. Don't ask why.

#4837 Daffa the Mage

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Posted 05 April 2020 - 03:49 AM

Is there a changelog draft for 3.3.5? Just curious.

 

Anyway, is the Bomb Buggy and Demo Truck has the exact same damage warhead? For some reason, Bomb Buggy feels psychologically more destructive than Demo Truck. Maybe cause of the speed?

 

Also, Hailstorm main purpose is long-range siege if memory preserves. Is it still that or is the role shifted? Last I checked their building damage is not strong when compared to other siege tanks like say Magnetron or SCUD Launcher. Did I miss something?

 

EDIT:

 

Is there a way to know what is the tier of each structure and trainables? Wanna know which ones get disabled at what level.


Edited by Daffa the Mage, 05 April 2020 - 04:44 AM.


#4838 MusketMarine

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Posted 05 April 2020 - 08:15 AM

I'd jokingly love for the return of the base-game slave miner, with its attack balanced towards MO's damage and armor values. It'd be a great unit for a custom map or something. As the current slave miner in the map editor is questionably 'unusable', and oddly broken.

 

I can't see it returning to the Epsilon in the future however, since there'd logistically and realistically be no room for the Slave Miner in the Epsilon Arsenal. The only way I could see it reasonably appearing in any non-custom map, is through crates.


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#4839 Terminal Velocity

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Posted 05 April 2020 - 08:40 AM

 

 

Anyway, is the Bomb Buggy and Demo Truck has the exact same damage warhead? For some reason, Bomb Buggy feels psychologically more destructive than Demo Truck. Maybe cause of the speed?

 


 

Is there a way to know what is the tier of each structure and trainables? Wanna know which ones get disabled at what level.

The Bomb Buggy and Demo Truck have the same weapon, therefore their damage is identical.

 

Do you mean Tech Level?


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#4840 Nox667

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Posted 06 April 2020 - 08:13 AM

Also, Hailstorm main purpose is long-range siege if memory preserves. Is it still that or is the role shifted? Last I checked their building damage is not strong when compared to other siege tanks like say Magnetron or SCUD Launcher. Did I miss something?

Its supposed to fill the same spot as scud, magnetron and the like: T3 long ranged siege indeed. But yes, Hailstorm anti building damage is rather sad, which i guess is due to their pretty decent anti unit capabilities. They heve the insane range of scuds, but dont miss, are more difficult to intercept (since the hailjet fires before it reaches its actual target), and deal more damage to units, most notably infantry.
My main gripe is that they are even worse vs defenses than vs main structures due to their main damage against buildings coming from the spread out cryo clouds, and its defenses you want your t3 siege units for mostly. Then again, PF got suppressors to deal with defenses in theory, in a much better way than outright destroying them. Supps however need micro, arent exactly cheap and fairly fragile outside BTs, while BTs are *really* expensive to use.

Cadre BTs are better for wrecking bases and defenses, but so much more expensive its frustrating. In short: I'd really wish for hailstorms to at least get an anti defense boost.


Edited by Nox667, 06 April 2020 - 08:18 AM.

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