5129 replies to this topic

[X1Destroy]

Siege Cadre actually out-ranged Tesla coil after the patch. Go give it a try.

But it's true though, that this is a situational unit. Its weapon is only usable vs 1 kind of target and isn't all that great at doing it either. Pyro and Dune rider are more versatile.

[Gameman112358]

I mean, Pyros and Duneriders can kill infantry very effectively, while the Siege Cadre cannot. Also, from what I remember, both Pyros and Duneriders have an AoE attack, while Siege Cadres are single target. Only thing that Siege Cadres have in terms of advantages from what I can remember off the top of my head is that their weapon ignores walls altogether. Pyro and Dunerider weapons will be blocked by a wall. So yeah, Siege Cadres don't seem that great compared to them in terms of multi-role capabilities.

 

Hmm, I was going to suggest that its weapon have its anti-infantry damage buffed, and have the weapon act more like the Prism Tank; essentially, the beam would disperse and hit multiple targets. That would make it's role overlap with that of the Navy SEAL though.

 

Thinking about it, the Allies to my knowledge don't really have a T2 AT infantry unit like the other factions do. Soviets have Tesla Troopers, Epsilon have Brutes, and Foehn have Railguneers (Nanofiber Loom, Cyberkernel, and Cloud Piercer function as T2 tech access buildings for Foehn). Allies don't have something at T2 that can take down tanks reliably; they have to rely on Guardian GIs for that.

 

Perhaps Siege Cadres could be tweaked to function as the Allies' T2 AT infantry, while keeping its role as Anti-Structure. Increase its damage against vehicles, keep its anti-structure abilities untouched, and make Cadres unable to be run over by vehicles (they look like they're wearing some pretty thick armor, going by their voxel. I was surprised to see they were able to be run over, considering Tesla Troopers don't look nearly as armored up as they are. Balance purposes, I guess).

 

Mind you, this is just an idea. I'm not really sure if this makes the Allies OP or not, but I'm open for feedback here, especially considering that Siege Cadres are available for all Allied subfactions. (And I can imagine buffed Siege Cadres + Navy SEALs = balance problems incoming).

Edited by Gameman112358, 22 April 2017 - 09:11 PM.

[Destroyencio]

Allies T2 Anti tank are Mirages/Zephyrs/Warhawks

[Gameman112358]

Oh, I meant T2 AT infantry, I mean. I know about those T2 AT units, I was talking about the Allies not having a T2 AT infantry unit. I've clarified that in my original post.

[NorthFireZ]

While it is true that the Seal IFV combo basically destroies all infantry, the Siege Cadre IFV combo only adds range. Actually I think the combo actually reduces fire rate. So it's a little hard for me to say that having a bunch of Cadre IFV, which btw are almost the same price as a prism tank, is a great thing,

I've had a conversation, or more like a calm debate, with a China enthusiast about the idea of a At sniper. The idea was to give China a sort of a ranged anti armor unit that will supplement as an in-between unit from the close combat nuwa cannons to the far ranging Centurion. I told him China op and shut down further communication. However, giving the Siege Cadre some vehicle damage would probably make it less of a fully situational unit. Of course people will still be spamming Seals and GGIs to no end, but perhaps we will see a couple Siege Cadre mixed between for light support. The damage shouldn't be too much. I'd imagine the Prism Rifle will hit metal plating almost like a recoilless rifle just without the shell or actual physical force. It will certainly dent a tank, just not enough to punch through the armor. So perhaps adjust the damage values of Siege Cadres to that of a flak trooper or something.

Let Cadres be feared on the battlefield. No longer must it be a waste of 500 credits! Let the Skittles revolution begin!!!!

P.S For the Tesla trooper rehaul I suggest something on the line of with the Russian doctrine: reliable. It would be a mistake to just make a heavier version of the regular old Tesla Trooper. For inspiration I suggest looking at Gypsy Danger from Pacific Rim. The dual rail gun version more specifically. I could just imagine a trooper with his arc reactor buzzing in the middle of his chest, both of his arms handling big swirling tesla throwers just exploding with energy. The weapons they wield are not precise, simple weapons. No no, their jobs require the messy destruction a Tesla thrower provides. In simplistic words: a shorter ranged cone like spray filled with tiny sparks of lightning. The particle effects y'all are looking for are already in the game! The Wormqueen weapon has an excellent effect that could be used for the new and improved Tesla Trooper.

[RushingRasputin]

P.S For the Tesla trooper rehaul I suggest something on the line of with the Russian doctrine: reliable. It would be a mistake to just make a heavier version of the regular old Tesla Trooper. For inspiration I suggest looking at Gypsy Danger from Pacific Rim. The dual rail gun version more specifically. I could just imagine a trooper with his arc reactor buzzing in the middle of his chest, both of his arms handling big swirling tesla throwers just exploding with energy. The weapons they wield are not precise, simple weapons. No no, their jobs require the messy destruction a Tesla thrower provides. In simplistic words: a shorter ranged cone like spray filled with tiny sparks of lightning. The particle effects y'all are looking for are already in the game! The Wormqueen weapon has an excellent effect that could be used for the new and improved Tesla Trooper.

This should be a T3 infantry unit. For a Russia replacement, just give them better range and rate of fire/damage.  

Although a tesla flamethrower like weapons sounds great on a T3 tank. Would overlap against the TC though. 

Edited by RushingRasputin, 23 April 2017 - 04:18 AM.

[Handepsilon]

@Cadre : That'll be great, but we'll have consistency problem with Prism Tank damaging infantry while doing negligible damage on armors.

@Tesla Trooper : Also great, although Desolator would need a new lore on why only Latin Confed uses them.

[Gameman112358]

I will admit, consistency will be a problem if Siege Cadres were turned into T2 AT and AS (Anti-structure) units, since like you said, Prism Tanks damage infantry, but not armor columns (Back in RA2, they destroyed everything because they could do damage to everything; infantry, tanks, etc.). I'm trying to think of a lore reasoning that doesn't sound like an ass pull (can't think of one at the moment), but at the same time, the Allies don't really need another T2 Anti-infantry unit; they're already got Navy SEALs for that.

 

Desolators? I think you meant Tesla Troopers there. But to answer both:

Desolators: Russia and the Latin Confederation use them, China uses the Eradicator, an upgraded version of the Desolator.

Tesla Troopers: Currently, all of the Soviet subfactions have access to regular Tesla Troopers. The idea is to give Russia a Tesla Trooper variant that is exclusive to them only, while China and the Latin Confederation still use the regular Tesla Trooper.

 

I kinda think that Russia's Tesla Trooper variant shouldn't be something too crazy, considering that it's a T2 unit; those aren't really supposed to be the most spectacular of infantry units. A Russia-exclusive infantry unit that shoots a Tesla AoE gun (NorthFireZ's idea) would be great for a T3 infantry unit (another aspect Russia is missing, a unique T3 infantry unit), but not T2 IMO, simply because it would be able to destroy tank columns in no time at all (unless it's really slow, which wouldn't really make much sense for Russia since Russia is supposed to be decently mobile; not as fast as LC, but nowhere nearly as slow as China). Here are my ideas:

 

Tesla Centurion (or some other name). Russia exclusive variant of the Tesla Trooper:

+More health compared to Tesla Troopers.

+Higher Damage, slightly higher RoF, and Range.

+Shots apply a short EMP effect, like the Tesla Cruiser.

+Only needs one of these units to keep a Tesla Coil powered while on low power; you need 2 regular Tesla Troopers to keep a Tesla Coil online while on low power, but you only need 1 Tesla Centurion to do the same thing.

+Of course, can't be bitten by Dogs or Spooks, and retains immunity to being crushed by vehicles.

-Costs more (Tesla Troopers cost $400, Tesla Centurions cost $600).

-Vulnerable to Magnetic Weaponry, of course.

That's it. They're not slower, nor do they lose anything. Kinda figured that if Russia are the pioneers of Tesla technology in the MO universe, they were probably able to perfect on the Tesla Trooper's weapons and suit, making them stronger, more durable, and more powerful without sacrificing mobility. Increased RoF + EMP effect might be a little much, but at the same time, Tesla Troopers fire their weapons relatively slowly, so I'm not sure how bad it would be.

I was considering Tesla Centurions actually be able to move faster than Tesla Troopers, since Russia does have a bit of a mobility focus, but I'm not really sure how to explain that, at least not off the top of my head.

 

Using NorthFireZ's idea, how about something like this for a T3 Russia exclusive infantry unit:

Tesla Legionnaire (if someone has a better name, tell me. I'm not good with coming up with unit names. XD).

Uses a Tesla Thrower against enemy targets.

Plate Armor Type.

350 HP (30 more HP than a US Riot Trooper).

Speed: 6 (Same as Tesla Trooper and Volkov)

Attack Range: 5

Anti-Ground unit.

Costs $1250 to make.

+AoE attack; great for blobs.

+Attack does good damage against infantry and vehicles alike.

+Fires relatively fast (I would say this unit would fire somewhat slower than Volkov's Tesla Cannon).

+Large health pool for an infantry unit.

+Can't be crushed by vehicles.

+Can't be devoured by Terror Drones.

+Immune to Dogs and Spooks.

-Attacks do not cause an EMP effect, unlike Volkov and Tesla Centurions.

-Vulnerable to magnetic weapons.

-Can't target aircraft, and Wormqueens will have no trouble facing this unit.

-Expensive ($1250)

-Not terribly effective against structures and base defenses.

Basically, Tesla Legionnaires are Russia's AoE attacker. If the Russian subfaction had to deal with a giant blob of ground units, bring out the Tesla Legionnaires. These guys are hard to kill, they've got a strong AoE attack, their range isn't too bad (Equal to the Tesla Trooper, less than the Tesla Centurion), and they can't be crushed by vehicles, or eaten by Dogs/Spooks/Terror Drones. Their heavy metal suits do however make them vulnerable to magnetic weapons (PsiCorps gonna have a field day), and their portable Tesla Throwers, while being able to zap infantry and tanks very effectively, are not effective against base defenses and structures. These are army killers, not base killers. Leave that for Scuds, Volkov, and Kirovs.

 

I didn't give Legionnaires an EMP effect, since in terms of lore, I kinda think that the Legionnaires' Tesla Throwers had to sacrifice weapon power for area capability (also so these guys don't invalidate Volkov as a hero unit). That being said, their AoE weapon can still quickly destroy tanks, and can just as easily kill infantry in 1-2 shots, so even though these guys can't EMP your army, you still don't want to get in these guys' way. Or be on the opposite side of these guys, for that matter. 

"Here's your electric bill!" -One of the possible quotes for this possible new unit.

 

Feedback and thoughts on these ideas is appreciated. I'm not sure how OP these units are, but Russia has been needing a little jolt in power (no pun intended).

[X1Destroy]

That might make Desolator even more useless IMO since it can do everything Desolator can and still capable of killing Terror drones and itself since its weapon isn't radiation. Rather than another anti-infantry and anti-tank only unit, giving it a bit of anti-structure power would better.

AOE attack should deal decent damage to infantry but not too much as it would be quite OP while AT damage should be weak, but apply EMP effect on enemy tanks. So if used together with Desolators, they should wreck everything as intended.

As for name, I think Shock Trooper should be good enough. Tesla Legionnaire sounds more like an Allied stolen tech unit.

 

Edited by X1Destroy, 23 April 2017 - 09:21 AM.

[Handepsilon]

I really meant deso since they're tier 3 infantry and I forgot about Arsonist and Gyro, which are the tier 3 exclusive for other subfaction. Since the utility might just overlap with one another I quickly assumed this Tesla tier 3 would replace Desolator for Russia

[BlackAbsence]

I made a suggestion about adding a Russian exclusive Tesla Trooper a long time ago but I went about it in a different way:

 

Russia: The Tesla Trooper (or Tesla Crusader)

- Cost: $600

- Speed: Slow

- Armour: High

- DpS: High / 4 seconds

- Crushable: No

- EMP effect: 1 second

- Maximum range: 4.5

- Special resistance: Tesla weaponry

 

Latin Confederation & China: The Shock Trooper (From RA1)

- Cost: $400

- Speed: Fast

- Armour: Basic

- DpS: Basic / 2 seconds

- Crushable: Yes

- Minimum range: 2 (So they run away from things trying to crush them)

- Maximum range: 3

Edited by BlackAbsence, 23 April 2017 - 04:48 PM.

[NorthFireZ]

I was actually thinking something on the line of a 3.5 range. Yes, quite a bit lower than the Tesla Trooper's original 6 range but that is the price of having superior fire rate and aoe. I'm trying to design a unit that would fit uniquely but effortlessly into the Russian arsenal without just a simple damage and health buff alike what was done to the Armorillo. So, looking at Russia's lack of Aoe and their fetish of Tesla weaponary I thought of having the Tesla Trooper fill the role of a close range aoe dealer sort of like the Firebat ( Need a light? ).

Also, about the Prism Weaponary lore problem. The Prism tank uses a less precise spread weaponary that can be seen in a lot of their attacks. These fractures in the beam do wonders against infantry and buildings by shattering them, but because of the spread the weapon does poorly against most vehicles. The Siege Cadre wields a single target Prism Rifle that allows for the foucusing of power to penatrate a single point on enemy armor. This of course makes the Rifle unwieldy agains infantry, as most anti armor weapons are.

[TeslaCruiser]

Well replacing tesla trooper for a slow/short range tesla trooper sounds more like a nerf for Russia, I think they lack some faster tank killer at tier 2 since rhinos are rather slow, something to fill the role marauders/harriers have in PC and EA.

Maybe this tesla commando could be a paradrop exclusive unit, that way they could fit in russian doctrine.

[SPCell]

I really like both of Gameman's ideas (Russian-exclusive Tesla Trooper and T3 infantry unit). It makes sense since China specializes in nuclear technologies so they have Eradicators while Russia specializes in tesla technologies so they should get their own, more powerful version of Tesla Trooper like China has their Eradicators.

 

An another problem alot of people mentioned is that Soviets in general lack solid anti-infantry options in early game aside from Terror Drones (especially against Foehn). Epsilon has Gatling Tanks, Allies have GI IFV and Foehn is self-explanatory. Imo, Conscripts and Halftracks/Tigrs need buffs (probably for their AA part too).

[NorthFireZ]

I never mentioned slowing down the Tesla Trooper. In fact, the only real change should be slightly higher health and a change in weaponry.  Shorter range units are always bad in defensive situations, but on the offense, they are quite handy. Case and point, the Brute. These new Troopers would work more hand in hand with the Pyro, providing excellent aggressively used anti-vehicle/infantry cover at tier two. At tier three and above, these troopers and still compete with monster tanks because of their faster fire rate, AOE, and the Over Charge ability. I do understand that range would be a problem for Russian tier two, but firepower certainly would not be. Right now Russia really has nothing to separate itself from other factions at tier two. The point of this change is to give Russia a much better tier two than other Soviet factions. China actually has the arguably better tier two at the moment with its Armadillos and Quillin tanks. So what could you possibly do to make the Russian T2 interesting? Simple: change their entire mid game philosophy with one unit. 

 

Actually expanding on the fast deployment and Cyborg nature of Russian doctrine, I feel like it would be great for this unit have some sort of faster walker legs alike the terror drone. Give it Cyborg level armor but drastically decrease its health to make it really feel like a mass producible unit. ;p 

[SPCell]

Speaking of Cyborgs, would be really cool to make Cyborg Vanguard a buildable unit again. I already suggested to reverse 3.0's case with stolen tech units: this time you get stolen infantry only if you infiltrate a lab of the same faction (SvS, AvA, EvE and FvF). Cyborg Vanguard can return as a SvS unit this way.

[TeslaCruiser]

Tesla Trooper/Pyro combo is really good ATM. I don't get how a range reduction could be good for a faction, range and speed are the two things you need to actually cause damage: mirage,marauder, dune rider, speeder trike and mortar quad are good examples, you know what ranges they have? 7/7.75/8/9.5/10. And you want a 3.5 that is even worse than conscripts, that is a free kill for dune riders/adepts/elites/seal IFV/knightframe.They would need to be immune to mind control and fast as hell to be actually useful

Edited by TeslaCruiser, 24 April 2017 - 01:10 AM.

[RushingRasputin]

Tesla Trooper/Pyro combo is really good ATM. I don't get how a range reduction could be good for a faction, range and speed are the two things you need to actually cause damage: mirage,marauder, dune rider, speeder trike and mortar quad are good examples, you know what ranges they have? 7/7.75/8/9.5/10. And you want a 3.5 that is even worse than conscripts, that is a free kill for dune riders/adepts/elites/seal IFV/knightframe.They would need to be immune to mind control and fast as hell to be actually useful

My thoughts exactly. Nothing flashy is needed on the unique Russian Tesla Trooper. Give it better range, better RoF, health, price at 500 or 550 then call it a different name. Would give Russia that more defining T2 without doing anything drastic. 

 

[NorthFireZ]

Again, you are just comparing the Tesla Trooper to the generic armor killers in other factions. Which, all have different roles within their individual armies. Mirages for static armor defense. The Maruader takes the place of a multi role T2 unit to make up for the fact Psi Corp doesn't have a T3 monster that can do damage directly. Funny how you should mention these armor killers too, because the Speeder, Mirage, and Maruader are all faction specific armor hunters. Uniqueness that Russia lacks. I suppose you could give Russia a unique air craft that could fill in the role of a tank hunter, or a AT sniper of some sort, but that's diverting from the unit presented here.

The range reduction would be to fit the new weapon, which would completely out class the regular Tesla weaponary as it would have the effects of the Worm queen weapon. And with a quad of terror drone like legs, the new trooper would be quite a bit faster. Cyborg level armor would also give the unit a very big advangtage over other tier two units. In contrast to the more range, less amor effect almost every single freaking other faction is doing. Have a faction that can go balls deep with a unit that has more damage, speed, and armor, but in return pay with cost and health.

I suppose you can just continue to refute the idea of an anti tank assault unit and go back to the more range and short emp idea. Easier to implement than this of course. However, this is a suggestion page. So, having a god damn Tesla Crawler sounds amazing to play around with.

Edited by NorthFireZ, 25 April 2017 - 02:29 AM.

[X1Destroy]

Nah, close combat isn't even Russian doctrine to begin with. If anything that would be a good idea for a new HQ unit. Despite being an faction that supposely have unique genetically enhanced infantry divisions, it only have Stalker. While being a good support unit, IMO it's still not enough for such a broad and interesting theme like this. An advanced cyborg mutant unit with a bit more range than brutes and AOE attack against infantry would be great.

Edited by X1Destroy, 24 April 2017 - 05:10 PM.