Jump to content


Photo

Angmar


  • Please log in to reply
1109 replies to this topic

#321 dojob

dojob

    AoW+DoW ftw

  • Project Team
  • 1,304 posts
  • Location:New York
  • Projects:Beta testing for WoA, RJ, and KotW
  •  Cav Rusher + Beta Tester

Posted 24 June 2008 - 08:56 PM

Well, after talking to elfhelm over hamachi and beating his angmar with Rohan in a 1v1 game, I've got a few ideas for changes:

it would pretty much be like normal and instead of elfhelm's idea, the thrall system would remain and would be able to spawn Gundabad orc warriors, archers, and wolf riders. Rhudaur hillmen could come in as normal units and be able to switch between spears and swords.

Den remains normal as well for the most part except hill trolls pretty much lose their pikes and become what snow trolls currently are, except that they look like hill trolls and could be a bit weaker, coming in at lvl2 dens while werewolves come in at 3 and come in hordes of 2-3 and are like trolls, but a bit weaker attack and a bit faster.

As for snow trolls, they can be a summon that replaces mountain giants, cause mike and i can agree that mtn giants are retarded and are un-unique anyway since the goblins already have them. The snow trolls ought to be more like mtn or cave trolls but maybe a bit better and faster.

As for vampires, perhaps they come from forts and perhaps after an upgrade is purchased? idk, depends on their attack capability and im guessing they'd have a hard cap like mhhs to keep them from flying allover the place nerfing everything.

Wight lair thing is a good building idea as long as the wights are much weaker than the current ones or at least dont get health every time they attack.

I'd prefer if you didn't have BNs as captains, as it makes Arnor less unique and possibly Rohan too if a few ideas for them are implemented.

All in all, I'd say my ideas are good changes; a few of the retarded units are gone while adding in new and interesting ones as well as maintaining the thrall system :dry:

Edited by dojob, 24 June 2008 - 09:00 PM.

Some helpful info on RotWK replays
Game Replays Forums; I am Panda Bear™
Awesome sig by TravTech :D PANDA POWER!!!
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

And please add Bear-mans


#322 Uruk King

Uruk King

    Lore-abiding citizen

  • Project Team
  • 1,673 posts
  • Location:Leamington, UK

Posted 24 June 2008 - 09:26 PM

might I lodge my own ideas?

Gundabad Orcs - better health than Mordor orcs but not as well armoured, can receive upgrades.

Gundabad archers - same as Mike's

Rhudaur Hillmen - versetile barbarians, cabale of switching melee and ranges

Rhudaur Speramen - same as before

Wolf pack - similar to Isengard's warg pack. (Note d'you think work could be done on the warg pack making them less tame and more savage when not in battle)

Vampire - single mini-hero. causes fear within enemy units and can drain a hero's health.

Carn Dum Guardians - Black Numenorian warriors.

Sorcerers

Shadow - singe stealthed, fast fell spirit

Wights

Hill Troll - Single large troll, most efective against stuctures

Snow Troll - Long range siege weapon, huring boulders.

Ettin - large two headed troll, extra head provides extra vision, (comical head animations nescesary). best used agaist other infantry

No troll trebuchets
I will remember Rhovanion Alliance, RIP .

Posted Image

#323 njm1983

njm1983

    title available

  • Project Team
  • 2,867 posts
  • Location:Orangevale, California USA

Posted 24 June 2008 - 11:58 PM

if people dont want the BN to be single unit why not make them an elite unit, limited to a couple hordes? AS far as vampires go I like the idea of it being kinda like the dragon nest for goblins, purchase some kind of "nest" at the fortress and you get to build a small horde of vampires with an ability to fight on the ground and in the air via toggle.

#324 tomy

tomy
  • Members
  • 81 posts
  • Location:Buenos Aires, Argentina

Posted 25 June 2008 - 12:02 AM

I don't really like single units. Still, I believe black numenorians captains are necessary, but warewolves and vampires should be small hordes (probably 3 units)
Wolves pack and barbarians should stay, and new barbarians should be added to make up for the lack of black numenoreans. Gundabad Warriors are fine as they are. Wights should be nerfed and made into small hordes. Both snow and hill trolls should be summons.
Barbarias and captains should be built in the Hall of the King's Men; Warewolves and wolves in the Wolf Den (probably needs a new name more fit to the warewolves), and the Temple of Twilight could build wights. Vampires should look like flying man-like shadows with red shiny eyes (tolkien like, not van helsing or dracula style). Warewolves skin could be a scaled black version of the 25pp wolf with red shiny scary eyes.

I thing that some kind fortress uprgrade or expansion would be necessary for vampires. It could be called Evil Nest or something like that

Edited by tomy, 25 June 2008 - 12:07 AM.

'Tall ships and tall kings
three times three.
What brought they from the foundered land
over the flowing sea?
Seven stars and seven stones
and one white tree.'

#325 Guest_uruk king_*

Guest_uruk king_*
  • Guests

Posted 25 June 2008 - 07:22 AM

I disagree with the nest idea. As far as I like it werewolves and vampires should be summons. Not the trolls. Perhaps the yes to the snow trolls.

#326 Myrdin

Myrdin

    title available

  • Members
  • 1,178 posts

Posted 25 June 2008 - 09:40 AM

i dont like single unit idea either - at least not if hafl of the units are like that
as said before by others, make them 2-3 per horde, but make them powerfull enough soo they can take it on with ony normal 10+ man squad. Best to give them AoE 2 units per attack.

snow troll summon instead of mountain giants sounds good, but MG are siege units, while ST are cawalery, soo this would weaken Angmar siege capabilitys.

as for Vampire - this is quiote interesting unit coz it offers a lot of wariety, as much as i dont like the idea of Vampire in game like this, it sounds good in the end.
How about this - there could be an upgrade called Vampirism - int the Temple of Twilight,
After you get your sorcerers, you might upgrade them ( if you got the upgrade - it would come at lvl 3 soo you couldnt get vamp upgrade before you get few sorcerrers and Shades - i like that idea of Uruk king ) into Vampires.
basically half of the acylotes would be " sucked out " (dead), and the rest of them would change into the vamps. you were speaking about.
The vamps could have a lvl 5 abylity - Chains of Death - which would, if killed change them into " lesser " wight.
"Let this scar signify the first blow against the mortal world."
"From this seal shall arise the doom of men,"
"who, in their arrogance, sought to wield our fire as their own."
"Blindly they build their kingdoms upon stolen knowledge and conceit."
"Now they shall be consumed by the very flame they sought to control."
"Let the echoes of doom resound across this wretched world, that all who live may hear them and despair."


"Tremble, mortals, and despair! Doom has come to this world!"

#327 Myrdin

Myrdin

    title available

  • Members
  • 1,178 posts

Posted 25 June 2008 - 10:39 AM

sorry for the double posting but i wanted to separete the two posts, becouse theres something id like to present.

As for now, we all are trying to get some ideas how to get Angmar better and more unique. As far we came to change of half units, for Mike s new stuff. Though we dunno what will be accepted and what will remain as it is.
As id like to throw one nice idea i got right now.
As Angmar is the faction that relies more on brute strenght of its units, and lesser numbers ( original angmar ), or would becoume a faction with powerfull single or small horded battalions ( mikes idea + ideas from others ), it still looks like they just "change the coat". Right now Angmar is hard to master, and mostly Angmarians ( A. players ) get pwnd. I dont want to go through drastic changes, just a small " thing " that would make you care more for every single unit you have on the battlefield.

My suggestion ( daring though, think about it, before you judge it )
EVERY unit of Angmar should get at least ONE abylity that is unlocked when reach certain lvl.
Its not like they change into mhh, they remain as they are just + one ability to make you think more before sacrificing the units.

IF we go from the original Angmar, they already do have units like this : Black Numenorean, Black Numenorean Rangers, Snow Trolls, + Sorcerrers - but thoose dont count
This units can get special abylity at certain lvl.
thats good soo, but if Angmar stays as it is ( without change in units, doesnt means unfixed stuff ) there are few units that could use some power too, just for the feeling of it, this are :
All thrall master units, Hill Trolls (formation, if they got any ain a power), and Wolfs - siege not included
soo : Thrall master stuff
orc wariors - as these guys are really powerfull, but die rather quickly, here are few abylities, couldnt choose from them myself, soo i just post and you choose
- Orcs of North - lvl 3 - increases the the overall resistance against every tipe of dmg by 10%
- Mountain Lairs - lvl 3 - guys respawn 2x as fast as normally
- Anger - lvl 3 - when they encounter combat they get +20% dmg - autocast power - 5 min. coldown

Barbarian Axe throwers - these guys are pretty good, though short range, but still, usefull unit
- Sharpened Axes - lvl 3 - autocast abylity coldown 2 min 30 sec. - the attack of each barbarian deals double dmg ( like Barded arrows - when they attack, the attack is special, and then they attack normally till it reloads )
- Hawk Wision - lvl 2 - poeple living in mountains ussually have strong sight - Increases sight by 30% and range by 10%
- Barbarians Fury - lvl 5 - passive/permanent, its the same - the barbarians throw one axe from each hand (means 2 axes per attack)

Barbarian spearmen (hmm i think i got the name wrong) - early anticawalery, cheap and weak, what should i say ?
- Pinning strike - lvl 4 - with theyre spears they deal huge dmg to single target ( good vs monsters, heroes, single units )
- Swinging blow -lvl 3 - the barbarians can swing theyre weapons which allows them to dmg more enemies at once (basically they recive small AoE, like 2 nearest units per attack, NO friendly fire, since these guyes are weak the AoE just helps a bit )
- Hwaldars chosen - lvl 7-8 - Now as you can see this is a VERY high lvl based power, and thats becouse this one is really powerfull, the only minus is that it is too hard to get the units at such lvl since these are just basic units without HA. This power works like one side upgrade, for 300g, at lvl 7-8 you can upgrade your barbarians spearman with HA, FB and additional +100 health point. Only basic unit of Angmar that " COULD " eventually become FU, but they need to live loong enough ( lvl up ) to get it, and there s the additional +100 resources as a bonus for your hard work.

Wolf Riders Angmar basic cawalery unit, pretty good at confusing enemy, though low in hp, if not let alone, these guys are good
- Battle Feast - lvl 5 - they can heal themself, if not engaged in combat
- Time to Hunt - lvl 3 - the trample dmg of wolf riders is increased by 25%
- Orc raiders - lvl 3 - the number of units in battalion increases by additional 2 riders

Hill trolls - Wery powerfull anti cawalery unit nor vs anything else, thought they dont deal dmg to units if they are " tramled ", high hp and endurance as well, overall wery slow
- Stone Skin - lvl 5 - further improves the armor efficienty of Hill trolls +20% ( from basic armor, if you get HA it will be not 20% from it )
- Engage battle - lvl 4 - player needs to activate - for next 20 seconds doubles the Hill trolls movement speed
- Savage brigands - lvl 4 - when hill trolls kill units or destroy buildings, you recieve some resources, 25% of the original units/building cost

Wolfs - Angmars harrasment unit, good to attack archers or infantry from behind, weak vs buildings . . . but hey ! they are just wolfs
- Dire wolfs - lvl 1 - wolf get additional 20 hp for each lvl ( the amount they got normally + additional 20hp )
- Wolf pack - lvl 3 - the number of wolfs in the wolf pack is increased by 3 permanently
- Beasts fury - lvl 2 - autocast - when the wolfs get close enough to enemy units, they ll will trample through them, and recieve dmg bonus +50% for 15 seconds ( similar to BN and Snow trolls abylity at lvl 2 )

well this is it, thats all the units from original Angmar faction, that dont have any abylity. Id like to get some things for mikes suggestion too, but i dont have time right now, though id eventually make something up for them too if mike allows me too.
Till then, i hope you like this few i put togather ( above )

Edited by Myrdin, 25 June 2008 - 10:40 AM.

"Let this scar signify the first blow against the mortal world."
"From this seal shall arise the doom of men,"
"who, in their arrogance, sought to wield our fire as their own."
"Blindly they build their kingdoms upon stolen knowledge and conceit."
"Now they shall be consumed by the very flame they sought to control."
"Let the echoes of doom resound across this wretched world, that all who live may hear them and despair."


"Tremble, mortals, and despair! Doom has come to this world!"

#328 mike_

mike_

    Student of Homer.

  • Global Moderators
  • 4,323 posts
  • Location:Gulfport, MS
  • Projects:The Peloponnesian Wars Mod.
  •  There are no heroes, no villains - only decisions.
  • Division:Community
  • Job:Global Moderator

Posted 25 June 2008 - 02:27 PM

Hehe, you don't need my permission, Myrdin.
Hmm...though I like the idea of unit-specific Powers, I think it may require too much micromanaging. Then again, I could be wrong - it needs to be tested out ingame before a decision can be made, IMO.
Feel free to post your own Tech Trees, and that goes to everyone. Some healthy, intelligent discussion (like why warsheep and axe-throwers shouldn't be in here :p) is always a good thing.

#329 Myrdin

Myrdin

    title available

  • Members
  • 1,178 posts

Posted 25 June 2008 - 02:58 PM

the whole idea of this is that every unit in agmar would become powerfull " over limit ", but to do soo you need to keep it alive and growing ( exp. points ), which as we all propably know, is a hell hard task ( especially by those weaker units )

and the present you would get from such hard task would be " voalla " some new cool abylity exclusive for this unit

btw - hus checked it, Black numenoreans have 2 abilities, one at lvl 2 ( same as snow trolls, its the original thing from which i made the " Beasts fury ", and second at lvl 4 " Iron mask " )

soo maybe this lesser units could have 2 powers, or even maybe all 3 ( of course if all three, i would reedit, the whole thing soo the powers arent gained at one lvl, but afte each other, like lvl 3,5,7 )

basically this would make each unit a mhh itself - thx to abylities, though the units power would remain as it is, just the abylities.

soo thats all i wanted, i gtg, tomorrow i ll post some abylities to the unit tree mike suggested ( aaah cant wait for Vamp.s and werevolfs :p )
"Let this scar signify the first blow against the mortal world."
"From this seal shall arise the doom of men,"
"who, in their arrogance, sought to wield our fire as their own."
"Blindly they build their kingdoms upon stolen knowledge and conceit."
"Now they shall be consumed by the very flame they sought to control."
"Let the echoes of doom resound across this wretched world, that all who live may hear them and despair."


"Tremble, mortals, and despair! Doom has come to this world!"

#330 dojob

dojob

    AoW+DoW ftw

  • Project Team
  • 1,304 posts
  • Location:New York
  • Projects:Beta testing for WoA, RJ, and KotW
  •  Cav Rusher + Beta Tester

Posted 25 June 2008 - 03:50 PM

Could be interesting... they'd have to suck quite a bit before they get these powers to balance it out since Angmar is already full of elite units and powerful heroes like Karsh and the WK.
Some helpful info on RotWK replays
Game Replays Forums; I am Panda Bear™
Awesome sig by TravTech :D PANDA POWER!!!
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

And please add Bear-mans


#331 {IP} Aridor

{IP} Aridor

    Redeemed Ranger

  • Project Team
  • 1,576 posts
  • Projects:RJ-ROTWK Mapping Team
  •  Loremaster

Posted 25 June 2008 - 09:33 PM

The hard thing is that they can't heal. They would need a well like upgrade to the fort to even make it possible.

#332 dojob

dojob

    AoW+DoW ftw

  • Project Team
  • 1,304 posts
  • Location:New York
  • Projects:Beta testing for WoA, RJ, and KotW
  •  Cav Rusher + Beta Tester

Posted 25 June 2008 - 09:44 PM

Sorcerers can heal, in a way...
Some helpful info on RotWK replays
Game Replays Forums; I am Panda Bear™
Awesome sig by TravTech :D PANDA POWER!!!
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

And please add Bear-mans


#333 shadowcreature

shadowcreature

    title available

  • Members
  • 457 posts
  •  RJ-Bug Hunter

Posted 25 June 2008 - 10:36 PM

Indeed they can. But I don't know about an upgrade to heal when nearby the Fortress. MOTE's Fortresses have them and I wonder if that could kill uniqueness.

#334 Dalf32

Dalf32

    The Ever-Willing

  • Project Team
  • 1,923 posts
  • Location:right behind you!
  • Projects:Beta Testing RJ-RotWK

Posted 25 June 2008 - 10:48 PM

i dont think angmar cared enough about their units to warrant a heal power. mote are still men so i think it makes sense for them on account of that; not for angmar though.

"A wizard is never late, nor is he early; he arrives precisely when he means to."

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image


#335 njm1983

njm1983

    title available

  • Project Team
  • 2,867 posts
  • Location:Orangevale, California USA

Posted 26 June 2008 - 01:30 AM

Spent some time today thinking of a good way to re-align angmar with the current units we have and combining mordor-like aspects. Heres my go at it:


Heroes

Witch King

Morgramir (Nazgul version) - in lore the nine had been around for long time and he would already be a ring wraith.

Black Numenorean (needs a name) bow/sword toggle - Since in Lore they were rare having a hero unit makes more sense.

Werewolf - there isnt any lore to support the existence of these creature in the 3rd age I felt a hero would be better suited for this. the model for the summonable wolf could be used.

Hwaldir - hillmen chieftan needs little explanation, did I spell that right?

Units

Gundabad orcs - fully upgradable, I ve always associated gundabad with goblins so, they would be equal to goblin swordsmen.

Gundabad Archers - same as goblin archers in strength

Hillmen spears - basic pike unit strong vs cavalry but no upgrades, think cavemen with spears.

Hillmen Torches - wildmen of dunland for angmar. just fire upgrade and pillage.

Gundabad Wolf Riders - basic cavalry fully upgradeable.

Hill trolls - Elite cavalry, horde of 3 / non formation. using mountain troll attack anims. no rock or tree though

Cult Leader - same as sorcerer, I think this works well given the black numenoreans history of human sacrifice and worship of morgoth. maybe some different spells.

Wight - slow moving tank unit, appropriate because the witch king created these creatures and sent them to occupy the barrow downs, so makes sense that they would be a fighting unit.

Stone Thrower - same

battering ram - use gundabad models for the operators

thats what I have for units

I was thinking wights would also make great units to protect all angmar buildings, instead of a fire arrow upgrade for towers research wight lair and a couple wights wil hover around the building protecting it from enemy units.

Snow trolls should be renamed to Trolls of the North and replace mountain giants in spell book

thats all I could think of:

#336 mike_

mike_

    Student of Homer.

  • Global Moderators
  • 4,323 posts
  • Location:Gulfport, MS
  • Projects:The Peloponnesian Wars Mod.
  •  There are no heroes, no villains - only decisions.
  • Division:Community
  • Job:Global Moderator

Posted 26 June 2008 - 01:32 AM

Seems pretty well-done. Maybe a good power for the Witch-king would be the ability to place a Wight Lair anywhere on the map.

#337 Devon

Devon

    Dark Nerd of the Sith

  • Global Moderators
  • 5,886 posts
  • Location:Colbert Nation
  • Projects:RJ RotWK, Twilight of the Republic, HDLH
  •  T3A Chamber Member
  • Division:Community
  • Job:Global Moderator
  • Donated

Posted 26 June 2008 - 03:59 AM

I like NJM's, but with a couple differences.

I think that barrow wites should be basically like warg lair for isengard, and be replaced but black numenorian single unit. Yes...I know everyone hates them from the above comments, but idk why...what's wrong with trolls, and berzerkers, and ents, and mountain giants?

And I think torches should be made into something else. Idk what...but not torches.

yodasig2.png
My political compass
There's a story that the grass is so green...what did I see? Where have I been?


#338 dojob

dojob

    AoW+DoW ftw

  • Project Team
  • 1,304 posts
  • Location:New York
  • Projects:Beta testing for WoA, RJ, and KotW
  •  Cav Rusher + Beta Tester

Posted 26 June 2008 - 04:46 PM

And I think torches should be made into something else. Idk what...but not torches.


Why?
Some helpful info on RotWK replays
Game Replays Forums; I am Panda Bear™
Awesome sig by TravTech :D PANDA POWER!!!
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

And please add Bear-mans


#339 Gothmog14

Gothmog14

    title available

  • Project Team
  • 343 posts
  • Location:Canada
  • Projects:RJ - RotWK Beta

Posted 26 June 2008 - 05:37 PM

There weren't any Black Numenorians in Angmar, at all. I don't know where EA even got this idea, Black Numenorians were rare in Mordor, there definitely weren't any in Angmar. I really like the idea of ditching Mountain Giants and making Snow Trolls more powerful (same with Hill Trolls, since Hill Trolls actually were Olog-hai from the Plains of Gorgoroth, not some weird green things).

I think a good idea might be to make the Witch King much more diverse. Since the whole faction revolves around him, maybe there could be tons of different upgrades or even powers and you could choose a way to go with him (instead of making up multiple other heroes that would just be like clones from other factions). Give him like three sets of different powers or something and you can choose which you use.

Posted Image
Thanks to Shikari for the sig
Posted Image
Posted Image


#340 Dalf32

Dalf32

    The Ever-Willing

  • Project Team
  • 1,923 posts
  • Location:right behind you!
  • Projects:Beta Testing RJ-RotWK

Posted 26 June 2008 - 05:49 PM

they would still need other heros because the witch-king is expensive and they cant be reduced to jsut having him and 1 or 2 others. they would be at a severe disadvantage imo.

"A wizard is never late, nor is he early; he arrives precisely when he means to."

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users