299 replies to this topic

[SMxReaver]

Give the Expander a slow speed, combined with relatively light armor and if you really desired you could use BuildLimit=-1 and map reveal upon structure placement to counter all those strategies. Expanders can still cost a bit of money too, I'd see such a device being in limited use for around 3000 credits. Definitely not something to throw around.

[Zenothist]

I agree with Speeder. Base expansion promotes turtling and base walking. Although I would like to remind you that the trick with the demo truck and Centurion are still possible with a mobile war factory.

Oh and modder666, if you have $3000, just buy an MCV.

Edited by Alien55234, 07 September 2010 - 09:13 AM.

[Speeder]

-1 and map reveal? Now that's just overcomplicating. I'm not doing expanders unless they don't instantly provide build space. If unit deevolution is provided in Ares, I will be able to do this.

Expanders shouldn't be pricy, they should have no build limits - just like in TW or RA3. The only thing I want to see in YR is that instadeployment removed.

@Alien: Yeah, but Nuclear Reactor rush bothers me more than MWF rush. And you can't call MWF rush a rush since it's available after TC, limited to one, requires a prebuilt factory etc.

Edited by Speeder, 07 September 2010 - 09:13 AM.

[SMxReaver]

If MO disables building next to tech structures, I don't understand how you expect players to access expansion spots on the map. Deployment of MCVs can be an extremely costly measure that can easily blocked by low amounts of terrain, or could give an opponent a much easier chance of taking some technology that could turn the tide of the battle for you.

Not to mention basewalking seems to be a perfectly legit strategy online, as most maps designed for online play have basewalking incorporated into their layout.

[Zenothist]

@Speeder: That is true. MWF is balanced better as it also doesn't provide any build space.

On the other hand, I wonder if it's possible to allow a deployed expander to slowly gain more build space over time the longer it's expanded. If that could be the case, expanders could make an interesting asset. Perhaps it is also an idea to limit the types of buildings an expander can buy?

Edited by Alien55234, 07 September 2010 - 09:24 AM.

[Speeder]

Basewalking is used because it's possible. If it wasn't, there would be no basewalking in first place. I'm simply not a fan of it, even if it's a valid strategy in vanilla RA2 and YR. I disliked it since TD's silowalking and will continue to. TW did something to minimize it and so did RA3 and it had some effects there (maybe expect for Scrin basewalk with intention of summoning the Mothership over enemy base, however that still involved engineers rather than basewalk in most case).

As I said - I don't like the way expanders are done in YR currently but if I find a workaround or Ares provides something useful for this case I'll implement them. Construction space around tech buildings other than expansion posts will not return though.

Edited by Speeder, 07 September 2010 - 09:28 AM.

[SMxReaver]

If upgrades can grant buildspace, then make an expander require an upgrade that gives it buildspace since you want it to be delayed. Solution found to a minor issue.

[Zenothist]

That's actually not a bad idea. But can upgrades give extra build space?

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

I think so. One of the issuse that survived to round 3 was (IIRC) basically allowing an upgrade to accept any tag a building coud have.

And Woot! Base Expansion Nodes! I can see those being stratigically used, especially if placed at choke points.

EDIT: I can't mention how epic these are! So I'll just upload them. If I could. Gaah. Okay, will link.

Okay, okay. Megaupload's being a real bitch. A search on PPM's media hut for "Ares"(Are's?) "Stuff" should find it. The base colour was corrupted slightly so you'll have to do a colour replace on it but apart from that they work fine.

Edited by Black Temple Gaurdian, 07 September 2010 - 11:24 AM.

[oao]

Version 1.

1. Build an expander.
2. Build a nuclear reactor, hold it at 99%.
3. Move expander near enemy base.
4 Deploy and receive build space instantly
5. Deploy nuclear reactor.
6. No ??? needed. Profit.

Version 2.

1. Build an expander.
2. Build a war factory, hold it at 99%.
3. Build a Centurion, hold it at 99%.
4. Move expander near enemy base.
5. Deploy and receive build space instantly.
6. Deploy war factory.
7. Deploy the Centurion.
8. No ??? needed. Profit.

Version 3.

1. Build an expander.
2. Build a war factory, hold it at 99%.
3. Build a demo truck, hold it at 99%.
4. Move expander near enemy base.
5. Deploy and receive build space instantly.
6. Deploy war factory.
7. Deploy the demo truck.
8. No ??? needed. Profit.

Version 4.

1. Build an expander.
2. Deploy it near enemy base.
3. BASEWALKBASEWALKBASEWALK.

I don't like the sound of any of those strategies. Even if one says that player should watch out for expanders coming nearby. Compared to MCV, user will not care that much about expanders if he loses them during an attempt to basewalk or execute any of those strategies.

i am always used to getting expanders in the early game for more income in red alert 3. well, now i get the instability in mental omega. thanks. and when will MO 3.0 be out? i am getting a weeee little bit impatient. i am still playing MO 2.0 currently, got abit bored.

[jerkyhunter]

I think that we should be able to build off our stupid AI's captured expansion points, i mean, THEY don't use 'em.

[Zenothist]

Does the AI capture expansion points? Well if they don't use em, capture em back!

Edit: this

Edited by Alien55234, 09 September 2010 - 05:04 PM.

[jerkyhunter]

I meant your ally AI's

[MasterHaosis]

Speeder, man, you rock! I was laughing when read that. Because I never ever used such stupid strategies. To build expander, and Nuclear reactor, and deploy it near his base. And what is going to happen? Waste 1500$ on some stupid explosion which cant even reach his base (you told near base right?). I haven't seen anyone using it because it is just stupid. Not me, not my friends. For me, it is not strategy, it is not even abuse, it is just wasting time and money. Cost for expander plus for nuclear reactor with little result.
Second, you do remember Allied Chrono Legionnaire which can catch both expander and reactors. You do remember all jets especially Black Eagle or Barracuda which can bombard that reactor. You remember Grand Cannon for Allies which can bombard from long range. So expander wont work on Allies. About Yuri. As far I know, expanders are not immune to mind control. Also, there is magnetron in any case. Make Magnetron bunkerable, so he can enter tank bunker for additional range, so expander cannot get close Yuri's Army. Also, Yuri has stealthed tanks which can be near his base at any time, so you cannot move expander just like that at front of his base. Soviets also have Centurion which fires from long range and can destroy expander in one shot. So, I do not see that expanding abusing. For me, this is so stupid, I would waste my money to build tanks and attack teams, no stupid games with expanding.
But yeah, expanding Centurion can be difficult for enemy. Your mod is specific for abusing expanding.
My mod, which I am making now, do not have space for that abusing. First, I have no countries, only 3 with all of special country units. As I said, Allies have grand Cannons, Black Eagles and Chrono legionaires which can stop expanders. Soviets have desolators, demo drones (redesigned terror drones), siege choppers (I am using deployed siege choppers for defence), Yuri has Howitzer and Magnetron, plus they can enter tank bunker (magnetron now does high damage instead dragging units), plus mind control units, so I can use base expand vehicles like in Cannis Rules as I want. But I am not using them because they are stupid.
So I suggest you to use expanders in your mod just because people like it, not so matter if you like it, cause that mod is for people to play. I would more than pleasant if people wants me to put something in mod which I dislike. If that will make them happy, then why not make base expand vehicles even if they are easy for abusing. Speeder, at least mod is for playing and for fun, that were your words in Red Alert X mod topic, remember. So, if people like to use base expansion vehicles, and fallen strategies, let them do it. Also, your mod wont be finished totally, that is why updates exist. You can easily change anything in next update.
I was making something in my mod, but I rejected it. Well, I did Mobile War Factory, but vehicle which deploys into original War factory for Soviets, vehicle which can deploy into base defense for Yuri, and vehicle which deploys into Chrono Reactor for Allies. But due to no using them, I deleted them for constructing.

[Speeder]

As I said - I don't like the way expanders are done in YR currently but if I find a workaround or Ares provides something useful for this case I'll implement them.

Edited by Speeder, 10 September 2010 - 05:23 PM.

[Zenothist]

Woah, back up. Masterhaosis, try and split your text into paragraphs. It makes reading it a hell of a lot easier. ;P

[MasterHaosis]

As I said - I don't like the way expanders are done in YR currently but if I find a workaround or Ares provides something useful for this case I'll implement them.

What does Ares have (or will have) to improve expander thing?

Woah, back up. Masterhaosis, try and split your text into paragraphs. It makes reading it a hell of a lot easier. ;P

Ah sorry, I forgot to do that. I will try next time to split my huge text into several paragraphs.
Alien55234,

[Speeder]

There was a buildup time tweak suggested. I'm not doing instadeploy expanders because I don't like them this way. It's great that you have them, Cannis has them etc. I'm not.

[MasterHaosis]

There was a buildup time tweak suggested. I'm not doing instadeploy expanders because I don't like them this way.

Yeah, those instant-deploy expand vehicles are deploying immediately. There is no way to control build time of expand building, or even it's function time if you do not want to be deployed immediately.
But wait second! You do remember siege chopper! it had slow deploy time, so maybe you can use deploying time to reduce instant deploy.

It's great that you have them, Cannis has them etc. I'm not.

Well yeah, your mod is special case for that. Expanders can ruin someone's life if he doesn't watch out for them haha!
Yes, Cannis has all three beautiful Expansion vehicles. And expansion buildings, I wanted to use them for something, but nah... Its his idea already and I have my own ones for mod, maybe I should send you a PM with my ideas, you can find something useful. If I have free time, maybe I can post screen shots of my project.
But for now, no expanders in my project. Probably in yours too haha.
But Speeder, anyway, in Cannis rules, there also can be done thing with expansion vehicle. If you are France, you can get constructed grand Cannon, get as close you can with expansion vehicle to enemy's base, deploy it, and deploy grand cannon near expansion building. Grand Cannon needs two shoots to destroy civilian building for garrisoning.

[jerkyhunter]

how about, for any one of the factions (i don't care) an aircraft that has an anti infantry gun, but explodes on contact for tanks and buildings dealing about a terrorist's damage x2.